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The lounge Relax, take a break from photo and camera talk - have a chat about something else for a change. Just keep it clean and polite!

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  #1  
Old 11th November 2009
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Are you a Photographer -- discuss

OK this was in a bar after drink had been partaken...

I was roundly abused by a 'professional' photographer as a disgrace to photography, a mere snapper of garden flowers. Someone who should not be allowed to call themselves a photographer. Fine, at the end of the day I can hold both my drink and my temper better than this 'professional' but...
  • are we photographers
  • would you call yourself a photographer
  • what does it take to be a photographer and who has the right to judge?

I'm easy about the definition, I take photographs (with care/attention) therefore I am a photographer (it's a whole different argument about the quality of the shots).

But are we really photographers - or just people who take pictures?

Perplexed

Nick
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Old 11th November 2009
j.baker j.baker is offline
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Re: Are you a Photographer -- discuss

I am not a professional photographer, but a keen amateur photographer.

I did a quick Google and came up with this:


http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en...e&ved=0CAkQkAE

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en...e&ved=0CAkQkAE

So by the strictest sense I cannot call myself a professional photographer....but do you know what.......I dont care. I dont have the pressure of having to make money from my photos......I do it for enjoyment. From my viewpoint, you seem to enjoy it. I say that we can all call our sellves what ever we want (as long as it does not bend the facts too much)

From your description I think that the other person was a jerk.
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Old 11th November 2009
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Re: Are you a Photographer -- discuss

If you are a disgrace to photography, I'd hate to think of what they'd think of me.

Did you find out why? Was it lack of "real" ( ) gear, or the fact you dont earn your living from photography...

I have learned so much from my OU photography course, and I am constantly surprised with the photos that people are adding. Some photos, in my opinion, are dreadful, they lack creativity, and thought, yet they still get comments saying they are good. Yet other photos are, in my opinion, really good, and they either arent commented on, or have a few negative comments.

Where am I going with this "essay"?

I think what I am trying to say is that "your" pro possibly doesnt like your style, or is envious of your ability and is trying to protect "his" patch. A photograph is looked at differently by each of us, and each of us will find something in the photograph that they immensely like or dislike and form judgements on that. The moment we pick up our cameras we become photographers as a photographer is someone who takes photographs... Its just where abouts on the ladder we are that sets us apart from any other photographer.
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Old 11th November 2009
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Re: Are you a Photographer -- discuss

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Temple-Fry View Post
OK this was in a bar after drink had been partaken...

I was roundly abused by a 'professional' photographer as a disgrace to photography, a mere snapper of garden flowers. Someone who should not be allowed to call themselves a photographer. Fine, at the end of the day I can hold both my drink and my temper better than this 'professional' but...
  • are we photographers
  • would you call yourself a photographer
  • what does it take to be a photographer and who has the right to judge?

I'm easy about the definition, I take photographs (with care/attention) therefore I am a photographer (it's a whole different argument about the quality of the shots).

But are we really photographers - or just people who take pictures?

Perplexed

Nick
I suppose it is a bit like a any other trade/craft.
A carpenter is a carpenter because he carpets, no, seriously, I have never heard of an amateur carpenter or bricklayer.
So I suppose in the strictest sense a photographer is one who earns their living from photography.
But I will continue to call myself a photographer, 'cos that's what I do, photgraphy. It's my passion. It is what I do even if I didn't earn my living from it.
Maybe because photography is more of an art than a trade. I don't hear of amateur sculptures or potters, just folk who describe themselves by what they do. That's my rambling on the subject.
Maybe the pro had lost out on a job because an amateur undercut him on price, maybe he was just a prat.
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Old 11th November 2009
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Re: Are you a Photographer -- discuss

That sounds like it sums him up!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sapper View Post
... maybe he was just a prat.
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Old 11th November 2009
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Re: Are you a Photographer -- discuss

Quote:
I have never heard of an amateur carpenter or bricklayer
But have you heard of apprentices? Is that not the same thing, someone who is learning their trade?

I would never try to make a living from my pictures, I'd starve plain and simple.
But as far as I am concerned a photographer is someone who takes pictures regardless of what they do with them. There are different levels of Photogrpaher i.e. pro/amatuer and those that don't wish to tag themselves with either label.

So in answer to the original question ..
Quote:
But are we really photographers - or just people who take pictures?
Yes we are really photographers, because people who take pictures are called photographers.
The question really is ..... does it really bother anyone if someone else says you are not?
When all is said and done none of us are claiming professional accreditation, none of us are putting letters after our names (unless we are entitled to). Everyone is entitled to an opinion and without a doubt you will get differing opinions, that's what makes the world the f*!ked up place it is!

Well that certainly woke me up!
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Old 11th November 2009
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Re: Are you a Photographer -- discuss

Well you got the forum of and flying this morning Nick

It sound a bit out of order, is there any background on why he rounded on you (other than beer) What field of photography was he in?

To me a Professional photographer is someone that makes their living from photography - they should be skillled at what they do. I believe that digital has produced a breed that expect their equipment with its auto this and auto that to do the donkey work without the learning curve and can imagine that has rattled a few cages. But some can produce the results, good on them because they obviously have an eye for it without the technical skills, others not. I think photography is subjective but a good picture always stands out no matter who took it.

So is there a difference between a pro photographer and a photographer

Yes, but some pro's are good and some are bad and some Joe blogs down the pub might just be better.

Dave
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Old 11th November 2009
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Re: Are you a Photographer -- discuss

I would quite like the title, rather as I would like to style myself "musician" just 'cos it sounds good: "Let me through, I'm a musician"

As to making a living from it, no chance - the world is full of photographers (and guitarists) and most of them are better than me, and many of them are unemployed.

I still like the title though. I did a 8x12 print intended for a presentation at church. They were taken aback and said they were thinking of something rather smaller. Could I get it redone as postcard?

"Postcard?" I replied. "I don't do postcard, I'm a Photographer..."


Pete

So, sod it, yes I am a photographer. I just earn my living in a different manner.
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Old 11th November 2009
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Re: Are you a Photographer -- discuss

Quote:
Originally Posted by snaarman View Post
i still like the title though. I did a 8x12 print intended for a presentation at church. They were taken aback and said they were thinking of something rather smaller. Could i get it redone as postcard?
"postcard?" i replied. "i don't do postcard, i'm a photographer..."

pete
lol
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Old 11th November 2009
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Re: Are you a Photographer -- discuss

So then, Are we considered PHOTOGRAPHERS?

A couple of years back, when I just started dSLR photography, many did ask if I am professional and do I do it for a living? My answer is Yes, a photographer but I do it as a hobby and a passion.

Since then I have shot in events, weddings, macro, flowers and countless landscapes. I have met people who charge for weddings and have shot alongside them. On the whole, I am still very mush a photographer as they are..only difference, I do not charge.

I was playing 2nd fiddle at one event and this hired photographer came without even an external flash, armed only with a tiny kit lens and an entry level Nikon I was wondering what was he trying to do??

So back to the point... YES I am a PHOTOGRAPHER and I enjoy photography.
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Old 11th November 2009
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Re: Are you a Photographer -- discuss

Strictly speaking anyone who takes images with a camera is a photographer.

Its the the self extolled (and sometimes meaningless) classifications of photographers that causes argument. Pro, hobbyist, novice, intermediate, amateur, advanced amatuer, take your pick.

Stictly speaking a pro is someone that earns more than 80% of his income from photography, but I know a lot of pro's who's photographic skill and knowledge are much less (even abismal sometimes) than skilled and knowledgeable amateurs but have great marketing skills so pro does not alway mean good photography!

Personnely I have no problem with the term amateur as it was originally derived from the French word amature which meant someone who does something for the love of it, which kind of describes me perfectly.

But there is no real answer to this question and to play devils advocate my mind goes back to a saying I heared years ago.

"Everyone in the world owns a camera but the world is not full of photographers"
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Old 11th November 2009
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Re: Are you a Photographer -- discuss

I am when I have a camera in my hand and am taking pictures. At the moment I am not.

"Each man in his time plays many parts" (hope I have quoted correctly), there have been days in the past when I have been a plumber, when I am on the end of a bell rope I am a bellringer. At neither of these occupations have I earned my living. These titles describe our activities, there are very few which are restricted to those with particular qualifications e.g. solicitor, medical practitioner etc.

If (heaven forbid) I were to sit myself down at a beauty spot with paints, brushes, easel etc. what would the man on the Clapham omnibus call me? He would have no idea whether I made a living at this activity or not. He would almost certainly refer to me as an artist.

There is, I understand, an obscure weekly magazine aimed at those photographers who do not earn their livings by their art. It does not seem to have any difficulty in deciding what to call us
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Old 11th November 2009
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Re: Are you a Photographer -- discuss

This does seam to be a regular argument esp with Nikon and Canon users looking down at any other brand of camera.

So many people come out of colleege with a a degree, buy a canon and think they are a pro

I agree that a pro is someone who earns over 80% of their income taking photos.

Most people who has qualifications consider themselves a pro, but I have seen some many people come out of college or uni with plenty of degrees in photography and dont have a clue with even the basics of photography

The way I see it is like driving yes you pass your test, but when your on the road thats when you start to learn, same with photography.

If you earn a living with your camera and your clients are happy with your work, then you have done your job and should be considered a pro
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Old 11th November 2009
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Re: Are you a Photographer -- discuss

My background is in engineering. Time for a bit of comparative impact testing of the E3 and the idiots skull.

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Old 11th November 2009
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Re: Are you a Photographer -- discuss

My take on things is:
  • Yes, we have cameras, therefore we are photographers
  • Yes, when I have my camera, I am a photographer
  • Everybody has the right to judge. Problems often arise when you take heed of the judgement, without first taking into account how much you value the opinion of the judge.

Sounds like the proverbial Teddy had been flung from the pram. I have a friend who takes great delight in ‘debating’ with such people, winding them up, then finally agreeing with their point of view and quizzically saying “That you can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make it play in a Bavarian Oompah Band” before walking off. The effect is a delight to behold
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