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  #31  
Old 20th November 2015
Ricoh Ricoh is offline
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Re: Expose to the Right of the Histogram!

I'd be interested in seeing the histogram from Capture One prior to high light recovery, ie as opened on import.
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  #32  
Old 20th November 2015
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Ross the fiddler Ross the fiddler is offline
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Re: Expose to the Right of the Histogram!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricoh View Post
I'd be interested in seeing the histogram from Capture One prior to high light recovery, ie as opened on import.
I'll import it again & take screen shot then as well as the histogram in OV3.
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I fiddle with violins (when I'm not fiddling with a camera).
Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/ross-the-fiddler/
Cameras: OM-D E-M1 & Mk II, Olympus Stylus 1, OM-D E-M5.
Lenses: M.ZD7-14mm f2.8 PRO Lens, M.ZD12-40mm f2.8 PRO Lens, M.ZD40-150mm f2.8 PRO Lens, MC-14, MC-20, M.ZD45mm f1.8, M.ZD12-50, M.ZD60 Macro, M.ZD75-300 Mk II, MMF-3, ZD14-54 II, Sigma 150mm F2.8 APO Macro DG HSM.
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Software: Capture One Pro 10 (& Olympus Viewer 3).
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  #33  
Old 22nd November 2015
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Re: Expose to the Right of the Histogram!

Apparently the histogram you see in live view (or afterwards, in playback) is not the raw histogram and the excellent article below explains why it's possible to recover blown highlights in PP even though the LCD histogram is showing 'limit'. Basically the LCD displayed histogram (which is a function of, but not actually the whole output from JPEG processing) is somewhat conservative. The paper provides background to the problem, and two solutions for making it more accurate. Once the histogram is 'fixed', you can ETTR and know when you've reached limit, then back off a bit, which is better rather leaving the fix to PP.
The article also describes the law between SNR and sensor size, and the benefits of a properly set ETTR.

Using in-camera histograms for ETTR | The Last Word

http://blog.kasson.com/?page_id=2387
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Old 22nd November 2015
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Re: Expose to the Right of the Histogram!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricoh View Post
Apparently the histogram you see in live view (or afterwards, in playback) is not the raw histogram and the excellent article below explains why it's possible to recover blown highlights in PP even though the LCD histogram is showing 'limit'. Basically the LCD displayed histogram (which is a function of, but not actually the whole output from JPEG processing) is somewhat conservative. The paper provides background to the problem, and two solutions for making it more accurate. Once the histogram is 'fixed', you can ETTR and know when you've reached limit, then back off a bit, which is better rather leaving the fix to PP.
The article also describes the law between SNR and sensor size, and the benefits of a properly set ETTR.

Using in-camera histograms for ETTR | The Last Word

http://blog.kasson.com/?page_id=2387
Steve,
I can't help but feel that the guy who wrote this blog is being over-obsessive.
Knowing that the histogram you see on the camera LCD or viewfinder is slightly pessimistic w.r.t. to white clipping gives you 2 options without bothering with the calibration process he describes.
  1. As you dial in exposure compensation, when you reach the point where the histogram is clipped you know that your RAW image will have some latitude for highlight recovery - which can be useful in tricky lighting conditions.
  2. Based on your experience you will know that you can deliberately turn up the exposure slightly beyond the point where clipping is indicated - and still achieve a successful image which won't have blown highlights.
With either option, applying exposure bracketting with a small value (e.g. 1/3 stop) will get an ETTR as close as possible to being blown - if this is a critical objective.
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Last edited by Gwyver; 22nd November 2015 at 05:46 PM. Reason: typo
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  #35  
Old 22nd November 2015
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Re: Expose to the Right of the Histogram!

I agree with you Chris, doing what you say above should be more than adequate, as long as you know what effect you're after - I'm referring to artistic choice.

What got me looking into this was the post higher up the chain by Ross the Fidler, I couldn't understand how he was recovering when the JPEG was blown. I'm in the know now, so my curiosity is satisfied.
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  #36  
Old 27th November 2015
mstphoto mstphoto is offline
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Re: Expose to the Right of the Histogram!

I've read a lot about this but never tried it as I prefer to bracket but I tried it this morning at first light in the woodland along the river.
I shot this at ISO 1600, as IanB rightly pointed out, ETTR increases exposure times and I had to shoot at a higher than normal ISO to obtain a hand-holdable shake free image.
Perhaps not the best example but I'm pleased with the result.
I'll certainly be experimenting more in the future.
Thanks Jim & IanB

E-M10 + 14-42 kit lens

Leaves & Roots by Mike Stephen, on Flickr
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  #37  
Old 27th November 2015
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Re: Expose to the Right of the Histogram!

The above is quite a good example to show why ETTR is important:

The subject has mainly midtones, which the histogram in (say) PS should show. If it was underexposed, less tonal information would be captured in the midtones. This would mean that when the histogram is stretched in PS to give a full range of tones from shadows to highlights, the lack of information in the midtones would show, as evidenced by discontinuities in the PS histogram ('staircase effect').

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