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  #1  
Old 16th February 2013
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Pan/Leica 14-150 on ebay

I've no connection to the seller but just spotted this on ebay if anyone is interested in this rare lens.
item number 140915866579
Currently at £599 or buy it now at £899.
  #2  
Old 25th February 2013
perrin124 perrin124 is offline
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Re: Pan/Leica 14-150 on ebay

I was the seller and despite hundreds of page views and dozens of watchers there was only one bid so the buyer got it for £599.
Lovely lens but I never really got used to the 'wrong way' zoom ring.
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Old 26th February 2013
Edman Edman is offline
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Re: Pan/Leica 14-150 on ebay

I think February is a bad time to sell anything. Most people think that purchasing power hits a real low in January after Christmas, in reality people are often disappointed about Christmas and buy a lot in January expecting bargains, and the real low hits in late January/February. I notice it with my business all the time.

Also, you posted a BIN of £899 and I think people are usually put off by that type of stuff. And if you sell a lot on ebay, I don't so I don't know much about how to do that, but if you do, I think you should learn how to do shill bidding, its practically normal business practice on ebay.
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Old 26th February 2013
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Re: Pan/Leica 14-150 on ebay

It certainly seems a quiet month. The EC20 and 45/1.8 I posted earlier this week have attracted zero interest and £599 is a steal for a 14-150.

What is shill bidlding please?
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Old 26th February 2013
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Re: Pan/Leica 14-150 on ebay

Shill bidding is when you make another account to bid up the price on the item you're selling.

Most companies who operate an auction style business on ebay use shill bidding to ensure items don't sell below a certain price point without having to set a reserve (setting a reserve, just like BIN, puts off a lot of people).
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Old 26th February 2013
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Re: Pan/Leica 14-150 on ebay

E BAY Says
Shill bidding happens when anyone—including family, friends, roommates, employees, or online connections—bids on an item with the intent to artificially increase its price or desirability. In addition, members cannot bid on or buy items in order to artificially increase a seller's Feedback or to improve the item's search standing.
Make sure you follow these guidelines. If you don’t, you may be subject to a range of actions, including limits of your buying and selling privileges and suspension of your account. Shill bidding is also illegal in many places and can carry severe penalties.
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Old 26th February 2013
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Re: Pan/Leica 14-150 on ebay

I thought as much!
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Old 26th February 2013
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Re: Pan/Leica 14-150 on ebay

Yah, sure, its "illegal". What else can ebay say? They don't openly endorse it, but the reality is, they have even built in functionality for shill bidders, its called a second offer or something like that. Its when you bid against a shill bidder and lose, the seller can still offer you the item even though you lost the auction.

And like I said, most people who run an auction ebay business, use shill bidding. They make lots of second accounts and build them up by buying either 99 cent items, or buying bargains. They then re-sell those bargains via a main account and use the shill bidding account to bid up the price.

Its kind of like saying speeding is illegal and you shouldn't do it. Well, yeah. Its true. But somehow everybody in the fast lane seems to be doing 95.
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Old 26th February 2013
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Re: Pan/Leica 14-150 on ebay

As much as I hate the idea of 'shill bidding' it does go on. A person I worked with was attempting to sell a motorcycle on ebay and A N Other offered to bid (gave bid name and was prepared to go upto £4,000) to push up the price. I've known people who have been offered the item even though they were outbid... just one of many reasons I shy clear of ebay and the like.

I've been lucky to have had gear on this forum snapped up but still have a few left over which even at almost give-away prices where and are still ignored. With wages/salaries/pensions all stagnating and essential commodities prices rising, VAT at 20% and fuel cost etc all on the rise, reality is punishing the many whilst the few remain above it all.

On another forum I visit, someone is being forced to relocate to a place of work further away because he has his own transport. No extra cash offered, refuse and be pushed out the door? For the many this is REALITY, with no celebs and no exit door.
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Old 26th February 2013
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Re: Pan/Leica 14-150 on ebay

Quote:
Shill bidding is when you make another account to bid up the price on the item you're selling.
Shill Bidding is actually against eBay policies and illegal,

I'm not suggesting anyone on here does it or would do it... but it worth reading this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8632357.stm
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Old 26th February 2013
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Re: Pan/Leica 14-150 on ebay

I have on occasions been offered goods on Ebay under the "second chance" rule. On each occasion I have complained to Ebay who have investigated and terminated the accounts of the original sellers. I urge others to do the same. In my opinion Ebay shouldn't even offer this option as it's very open to abuse.

I consider it immoral, even if others say that "everyone does it".
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Old 26th February 2013
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Re: Pan/Leica 14-150 on ebay

The way to check if shill bidding is going on is to look at Bid History on an item. If there's somebody with a very low number of transactions, who is bidding on only or mainly on items from the same seller, then it's probably shill bidding.

I have reported a number of these, but, in the end, it's in ebay's interest for sales to get as much as possible. Ebay gets a cut; Paypal gets a cut usually; and that goes to their coffers. So selling an item for £10 would get fleabay approx. half as much and Paypal half as much as a successful £20 sale.

Also, relisting earns fleabay money - they get a cut from that, too. So, it's in ebay's best interests to get as much as possible; and, if not, for the seller to relist.

Yes, it's against the rules; no, they will not enforce account closure unless they really have to. It's not in ebay's interests.

I use ebay only when I have to (for lots of other reasons, too), and worked out that with ripoffness and lack of guarantees with the items, I would have been as well off going to Amazon or similar all told. (Not for CDs, though - small items, not easily damaged in the post, and easy to complain and get your money back if something's wrong. I've converted my vinyl to CD really quite cheaply thru fleabay).

I have given up reporting shilling. I also avoid certain camera sellers, but that's another story !
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Old 26th February 2013
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Re: Pan/Leica 14-150 on ebay

The link posted by Chrisspencer is interesting in that it was dated April 2010 - ' we invest £6million blah, blah, blah' - obviously money well spent as from the context of posts, sadly, it appears to be still ongoing?
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Old 26th February 2013
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Re: Pan/Leica 14-150 on ebay

I have been buying on eBay for years now and now realise that the goods I've bought as a result of Second Chance Offers have been more expensive than they needed to be because I've probably been bidding against the seller. I suppose nobody was forcing me to buy at the price but I do feel a bit of a fool. I know, in the world of fine art auctions, taking "Chandelier Bids" is common practice to push up the price. I don't know what made me think something similar wasn't going on on eBay
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Old 26th February 2013
Chrisspencer Chrisspencer is offline
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Re: Pan/Leica 14-150 on ebay

On the odd occasion /I have bought or sold on eBay I would say that 90% of the time it has been Buy it Now, If I am selling I will have a rough idea of what items have previously sold for and what the lowest price I'm able to accept and place a BIN listing,
Keep in mind that BIN will cost the seller more in fees... eBay will never lose out .

I once received a "Second Chance" offer, and managed to get the seller to knock off an additional £15, he was wanting to sell...apparently the "winner" contacted him within minutes pleading lack of funds ???

I said that I wasn't bothered as I had lost the auction... and offered £45, which he accepted.

I am certainly more wary about buying from eBay auctions these days, and would prefer to buy from members on here... generally a much better buying experience!
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