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The lounge Relax, take a break from photo and camera talk - have a chat about something else for a change. Just keep it clean and polite!

View Poll Results: Are you getting fed up with Brexit and should we go back to discussing other things ?
YES - Close the thread 21 47.73%
NO - Keep the debate going on for eternity 23 52.27%
Voters: 44. You may not vote on this poll

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  #931  
Old 21st August 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Ford View Post
"Holding another referendum would be playing with the foundations of our country in a way that is really, really damaging,"

My point exactly. The U.K. public will need to suck up the consequences of their decision, before ultimately vomiting up all the Brexit bile!

Jim
Hi Jim

I did a review and asked google a question. “How likely is it for a second referendum to be held?” I came across multiple answers. At random, I chose the following:

One source at Inews said if the EU took this seriously, Article 50 could be extended. To achieve this, Mrs. May would have to introduce a new bill and she would need support from the Labour Party MPs to get it through. Then there is the time factor for campaigning and whether or not the British public is ready for voting again and would the same mistakes highlighted by the Electoral Commission, be made again. The bottom line is thats it’s unlikely, but anything can happen.
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  #932  
Old 22nd August 2018
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Graham_of_Rainham Graham_of_Rainham is offline
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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Originally Posted by Jim Ford View Post
.... The U.K. public will need to suck up the consequences of their decision, before ultimately vomiting up all the Brexit bile!

Jim
The prime role of Government is to protect the country and its people.

The leave voters are not the majority of the people of this country, so it’s completely unfair to make all the people, including those that voted leave for all the wrong reasons, suffer.

Very few people will stand by and watch people self harm, so why would we let the country do it?
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  #933  
Old 22nd August 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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Originally Posted by Graham_of_Rainham View Post
The prime role of Government is to protect the country and its people.

The leave voters are not the majority of the people of this country, so it’s completely unfair to make all the people, including those that voted leave for all the wrong reasons, suffer.

Very few people will stand by and watch people self harm, so why would we let the country do it?
So you don't do democracy. - this thread is stuck in a loop.
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  #934  
Old 22nd August 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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Originally Posted by Graham_of_Rainham View Post

Very few people will stand by and watch people self harm, so why would we let the country do it?
That’s your perspective on what happened with the vote, I’d imagine all the leavers feel very differently, probably the opposite in fact so, as others have said, the process was democratic, an outcome was reached and surely to try to change that, undermines that democracy.
  #935  
Old 22nd August 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

UK “democracy” is run by “tossers”. May tossed the coin and lost the majority in the last election...

Contrary to what may be thought, I believe that a fair and honest democratic system is the best way to make decisions in groups and the country. However, when that process is flawed, by whatever means, it is no longer democratic...

Quote by Dr. Rachel Clarke: "Frankly many Brexiteers treated the truth & the evidence with impunity, and if I as a doctor behaved in that way I would be struck off by the GMC & rightly so because I wouldn't be honest, I wouldn't be a doctor, I'd be a charlatan."
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  #936  
Old 22nd August 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham_of_Rainham View Post
The leave voters are not the majority of the people of this country, so it’s completely unfair to make all the people, including those that voted leave for all the wrong reasons, suffer.
Yes I agree to a point, but if there is another vote and the original result is overturned, we'd never hear the last of it from the Brixiteers. It would fester for decades and create a rift and poison our society. Brexit needs to be experienced and shown for the idiocy that it is for it to be put to bed once and for all.

Contrarily, although I voted emphatically Remain, I'm considering voting Leave if there is another referendum to bring the above about!

Jim
  #937  
Old 22nd August 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

Here you go this will keep people occupied.
Brexit Video Game

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2...ur-own-brexit/
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  #938  
Old 22nd August 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham_of_Rainham View Post
UK “democracy” is run by “tossers”.
Stop there and it sums it up succinctly! The current bunch of politicians are, for the most part, tossers! No-one inspires me with any confidence, they all get moved around without enough time to settle and get things sorted, they all seem to be in it for reasons other than the good of the populace / country.
  #939  
Old 22nd August 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

I'm not sure I'd call them tossers, but what is absolutely clear is that we've been very, very badly let down by our elected leaders. Cameron was called a **** by some TV personality recently and I think that sums it up pretty well. We are in a terrible situation with Brexit and I really can't see any way out except through a period of pain. I can see Jim's point entirely about us needing to feel the pain of our Brexit vote - but OTOH, I'm thinking of my children's future.
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  #940  
Old 22nd August 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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Originally Posted by pdk42 View Post
I'm not sure I'd call them tossers, but what is absolutely clear is that we've been very, very badly let down by our elected leaders. Cameron was called a **** by some TV personality recently and I think that sums it up pretty well. We are in a terrible situation with Brexit and I really can't see any way out except through a period of pain. I can see Jim's point entirely about us needing to feel the pain of our Brexit vote - but OTOH, I'm thinking of my children's future.
I have seen that comment about David Cameron and its based on his student days when he was allegedly caught experimenting with a pig in a sexual way. Clearly he must have off his head at the time, query drunk. My wife concluded the same outcome of the demographic post you put up yesterday and it’s something I have seen in the lower educated in certain elements of British Society. During the Brexit vote, in my car club, I was made to feel intimidated and small for speaking up for the remainers. That element of the leavers in the club, most of them, demonstrated their low education and thuggery. The journey to the false promised land has started and nothing can be done to stop it.

I would like to think this club can rise up and not degenerate into calling those in either camp derogatory names.
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  #941  
Old 22nd August 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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Originally Posted by Gate Keeper View Post
I have seen that comment about David Cameron and its based on his student days when he was allegedly caught experimenting with a pig in a sexual way. Clearly he must have off his head at the time, query drunk. My wife concluded the same outcome of the demographic post you put up yesterday and it’s something I have seen in the lower educated in certain elements of British Society. During the Brexit vote, in my car club, I was made to feel intimidated and small for speaking up for the remainers. That element of the leavers in the club, most of them, demonstrated their low education and thuggery. The journey to the false promised land has started and nothing can be done to stop it.
Maybe we should have an intelligence test before we are allowed to vote? Any such test should include some questions on basic economics.

As far as I am aware any man's or woman's vote is of equal value in this country, irrespective of their educational attainment. That is what we know as a democracy. What is being intimated here is beginning to sound like Hitler's Germany.
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  #942  
Old 22nd August 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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Interesting. Once again we have Leavers described as being of low education only this time with the added suggestion of being Thugs.

What next ? Murderers? Rapists ? the possibilities are endless no doubt.

John
Couldn't agree more. The views of some seriously amaze me. This name calling is so childish, yet they claim to be the educated ones.
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  #943  
Old 22nd August 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

To quote and double quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Naughty Nigel View Post

Crucially, those I mention above all live in poorer areas, which by and large voted Leave.

Meanwhile the 'cosmopolitan elites' of the Remain camp tend to live in leafy suburbs and more affluent rural areas which are better protected from the adverse effects of migration, which makes it more difficult for them to understand and accept the very genuine concerns of the Leavers.

Added to the above, there have been several high profile cases where it is reported that the UK is unable to deport terrorists and other undesirables owing to the overarching powers of the European Courts. There is also more general question of overcrowding on our small island which cannot be denied.

It would therefore help if the Remain camp were to listen to and try to address the very real concerns of the Leavers rather than simply branding them as thick or stupid, and trying to baffle them with hypothetical facts and figures.
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I want to check your last statement about the remainers trying to baffle the leavers with hypothetical facts and figures. Where is the evidence to support your comment or could it be wishful thinking?
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Originally Posted by Gate Keeper View Post
***It would therefore help if the Remain camp were to listen to and try to address the very real concerns of the Leavers rather than simply branding them as thick or stupid, and trying to baffle them with hypothetical facts and figures***.

Are you listening?
Next time you make such a provocative statement please tag in the link where a remainer has branded a leaver as thick and stupid blah, blah.
Reading the thread again from the beginning does not work for me. Please do not suggest it again.
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Originally Posted by Gate Keeper View Post
I have seen that comment about David Cameron and its based on his student days when he was allegedly caught experimenting with a pig in a sexual way. Clearly he must have off his head at the time, query drunk. My wife concluded the same outcome of the demographic post you put up yesterday and it’s something I have seen in the lower educated in certain elements of British Society. During the Brexit vote, in my car club, I was made to feel intimidated and small for speaking up for the remainers. That element of the leavers in the club, most of them, demonstrated their low education and thuggery. The journey to the false promised land has started and nothing can be done to stop it.
I have no further questions M'lud.
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  #944  
Old 22nd August 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

John - I understand your sensitivity here. I certainly agree that the Leave position has a logical basis to it - greater sovereignty, better self determination, reduction in regulation, more direct access to elected officials (i.e. more democratic), more agile government etc.

However, I doubt that the majority of Leave voters made their decision due to these reasons. They voted as they did because of the bile that The Mail and similar publications had been feeding them for years. It's also true that right wing thuggery associates itself with the same anti EU rhetoric. It's wrong of course to paint all Leavers in this light, but that's the way it is.
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  #945  
Old 22nd August 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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Originally Posted by pdk42 View Post
John - I understand your sensitivity here. I certainly agree that the Leave position has a logical basis to it - greater sovereignty, better self determination, reduction in regulation, more direct access to elected officials (i.e. more democratic), more agile government etc.

However, I doubt that the majority of Leave voters made their decision due to these reasons. They voted as they did because of the bile that The Mail and similar publications had been feeding them for years. It's also true that right wing thuggery associates itself with the same anti EU rhetoric. It's wrong of course to paint all Leavers in this light, but that's the way it is.
How do you know what leave voters thought when they voted ?
You obviously don't listen to their case. Talk about a blinkered view.
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