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The lounge Relax, take a break from photo and camera talk - have a chat about something else for a change. Just keep it clean and polite!

View Poll Results: Are you getting fed up with Brexit and should we go back to discussing other things ?
YES - Close the thread 21 47.73%
NO - Keep the debate going on for eternity 23 52.27%
Voters: 44. You may not vote on this poll

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  #211  
Old 25th February 2018
Ricoh Ricoh is offline
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DerekW View Post
Re Solar Power - I have received just under 10k in 5 years plus reducing electricity bill by aprox 30%. My FIT payment increases by cost of living for 25 years from 2011.

John HM is thinking of water based panels, mine are only electrical. Water based panels can extract heat from the atmosphere as long as the temperature is higher the 0 deg K (theoretically)
Did you really mean to write 0K?

The CMB is approx 2.725K.

Absolute zero (0K) is -273.15C
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  #212  
Old 25th February 2018
Bengeo Bengeo is offline
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

"We're doomed" ..... but it seems solar panels are coming to the rescue!

I've just voted to close the thread .....
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  #213  
Old 25th February 2018
DerekW DerekW is offline
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

Solar panels will cost more post Brexit as we will have to pay an import tariff.

WE will also have to pay more for imported electricity.

So this thread should stay alive as unless there is a 180 degree turnaround we will be living with the consequences of this act for ever.
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  #214  
Old 26th February 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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Originally Posted by DerekW View Post
... WE will also have to pay more for imported electricity...
As one of the Simple Simon's still allowed to run loose, I fail to understand why, given the technological advances achieved to date, with more to come, why we are still hooked on importing electricity?

We are an island surrounded by water that ebbs and flows 24/7, plus the odd tidal estuary. We have wind - not including the PHARP! type - that's in constant 24/7 flux. When weather permits, we have the odd hour or two of the sun out at play with his hat on?

Q 1/- The big long-term, vision: WHY are we not investing £100+M's, in self-support for energy which would benefit everyone and the country as a whole?

Q 2/- The big long-term vision: WHY? HS-1 / 2 / 3? Investing as above... to shorten travel from A - B by 20' - 30'... to the benefit of?

As Tom Jones once voiced, WHY?, WHY?, WHY?
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  #215  
Old 26th February 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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Originally Posted by Johnheatingman View Post
With 360 active members and a turnout so far of 11 votes in the Poll, I doubt if the necessary minimum percentage for turn out will be achieved in 2 days.


John
Clearly you didn't read the rules under which the poll will be run...
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  #216  
Old 26th February 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

Wind, solar and tidal generation produce only intermittent power; demand is continuous. Until a viable electrical energy storage solution is found we require nuclear and/or fossil fuel generation as well. There is plenty of work going on to find that solution but until then renewables are not the complete answer. Remember the cold hard winter of (iirc) 2009/10? There was hardly any wind during that cold spell.
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  #217  
Old 26th February 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

Here in Swansea we are waiting for the go ahead and funding of our tidal barrage. Secure power supply for 120years, and a prototype for many others here on the west coast. Whilst not a 24 hour supply, it will be a guarrentee of power fairly free after construction..

And plenty of jobs too boot
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  #218  
Old 26th February 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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Originally Posted by Otto View Post
Wind, solar and tidal generation produce only intermittent power; demand is continuous... Remember the cold hard winter of (iirc) 2009/10? There was hardly any wind during that cold spell.
Both points well taken.

However, battery storage is getting more efficient, and will continue to do so. Lest we forget - which I did, there is a thermal contribution that could be added into the equation?

Indeed, it would take some time to be evolved into a useful strategy, but whilst sitting on our chocolate tubes, swilling beer and picking our collective noses whilst working out how to avoid taxes / fiddle expenses, won't resolve anything.

I just find it difficult to understand why getting from London to anywhere out-side the M25 @ X £billions for the 10%, is more important than an increasingly ongoing expensive than the @ £billions problem that affects the 100%?

Addendum:
At the risk of using the exiting 'B' word issue, which seems to be undergoing a similar BS + BS + NP process, could explain many of our current woe's.
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Last edited by Wally; 26th February 2018 at 10:41 AM. Reason: Inserted the 'dreaded' B word issue.
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  #219  
Old 26th February 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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Originally Posted by Johnheatingman View Post
Imports of electricity only made up 1% of our total fuel imports in 2015. It apparently comes from France and the Netherlands via undersea cables.
5.8% of our electricity supply, so I guess we must import huge amounts of oil and gas if that 1% figure is correct.

https://www.energy-uk.org.uk/energy-...eneration.html

After Brexit this will probably get more expensive ......
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  #220  
Old 26th February 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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Originally Posted by Johnheatingman View Post
We do............. and have done for many years......... and will no doubt continue to do.

John
We can't use our coal any more because it is polluting.

However, I understand Germany still uses a lot of coal to generate electricity.
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  #221  
Old 26th February 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto View Post
Wind, solar and tidal generation produce only intermittent power; demand is continuous. Until a viable electrical energy storage solution is found we require nuclear and/or fossil fuel generation as well. There is plenty of work going on to find that solution but until then renewables are not the complete answer. Remember the cold hard winter of (iirc) 2009/10? There was hardly any wind during that cold spell.
Tidal power in any ONE location is intermittent, but tide times are different around the country, so a series of tidal barrages to the east and west would help to fill in the gaps.

We currently have four high voltage underwater DC electricity cables connecting us to France, the Netherlands, Northern Ireland and the Irish Republic. The idea is that peak demand occurs at different times, so it helps everyone to even out demand by importing or exporting as required.

In practice Dutch wind power and French nuclear power is cheaper per KW/Hr than electricity generated by our gas and coal fired power stations so it makes sense to import power form the continent when it is available. However, we usually export power to the island of Ireland except when demand is very high, in which case we can import power from their gas turbine power stations.

If you want to see the figures have a look here.

I note that at the time of writing the total load on the grid is just over 48 Gigawatts, which is close to capacity, and that we are currently generating 10 Gigawatts from coal, which now represents maximum capacity. Wind makes up 4.93 Gigawatts, representing 10.26% of demand. However, gas is running below capacity; probably in view of the recent price rises.
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  #222  
Old 26th February 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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Originally Posted by Johnheatingman View Post
Even when we first began the changeover to Natural Gas from Coal Gas ( remember the promise it would be 1p per therm ? ) we were importing large amounts of Methane from the Arab States. The calorific value of natural gas is unstable and varies so much, pure Methane had to be added to guarantee the declared CV. Now I think we are importing the majority of our natural gas used, as the North Sea reserves have become depleted.

John
Our present North Sea gas reserves have become depleted, but the relatively low value of gas and oil currently, and high taxes imposed, mean that there is no incentive for the big oil and gas producers to go looking for more. In the short term it is cheaper to import it.
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  #223  
Old 26th February 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

Have look at the live UK grid status here.

http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk

We are currently using almost all the capacity we have.
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  #224  
Old 26th February 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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Originally Posted by Graham_of_Rainham View Post
Clearly you didn't read the rules under which the poll will be run...
Do we get a second chance to vote if we don't like the outcome?
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  #225  
Old 26th February 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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Originally Posted by Wally View Post
Q 2/- The big long-term vision: WHY? HS-1 / 2 / 3? Investing as above... to shorten travel from A - B by 20' - 30'... to the benefit of?

As Tom Jones once voiced, WHY?, WHY?, WHY?
In my view the money would be far better spent improving the existing rail network, (which is already good, but could be better), and on reopening some of the lines closed by Dr Beeching in the 1960's.

Rather than spending money on electrification and using increasingly scarce gas and oil reserves we could instead use some of our abundant coal reserves to power the trains, which in turn would boost passenger numbers.

Well, its a nice idea.
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