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The lounge Relax, take a break from photo and camera talk - have a chat about something else for a change. Just keep it clean and polite!

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Old 28th December 2015
sapper sapper is offline
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sale of goods

Got a rope light lantern a couple of Christmas's ago and this year it conked out. Cost me £20 two years ago.
I took it back to the garden centre and was told by the owner that after two years he couldn't do anything for me. I didn't expect a full refund, a voucher for 1 tenner would have done, but he insisted that after two years he couldn't help me.

What do you all think, am I being unreasonable to expect to get more than two christmases out of a £20 lantern?
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Old 28th December 2015
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Re: sale of goods

Have you tried changing the batteries
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Old 28th December 2015
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Re: sale of goods

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Originally Posted by Graham_of_Rainham View Post
Have you tried changing the batteries
Not funny

Runs off the mains Graham. Checked everything, fuse, writing ETC. it's just kaput.
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Old 28th December 2015
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Re: sale of goods

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Not funny

Runs off the mains Graham. Checked everything, fuse, writing ETC. it's just kaput.
I too have come to expect things to last, and agree that it's not unreasonable to seek some level of refund for something with such little use.

Is there anywhere else that sells the same thing, eBay perhaps.
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Old 28th December 2015
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Re: sale of goods

The trouble is although you payed £20.It probably only cost 2 or 3 quid from some Chinese manufacturer. But once everybody has put their cut on you end up paying £20 for a 2 or 3 pound item. These things aren't designed to last and you are probably lucky to have got two years out of it. This is the problem in todays throw away society.
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Old 28th December 2015
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Re: sale of goods

As far as I can recall consumer law dictates that an item should last 6 years in normal use and you are entitled to get the item fixed or replaced, and a refund if this can't be done.

Try consumeractiongroup.co.uk for advice on how to proceed.

Be aware that if the retailer will not refund or replace the unit you will need to go to small claims court to seek redress.
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Old 28th December 2015
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Re: sale of goods

Sale of Goods Act 1979 goods must be as described, of satisfactory quality and fit for purpose.
Fit for purpose means both their everyday purpose, and also any specific purpose that you agreed with the seller (for example, if you specifically asked for a printer that would be compatible with your computer)

Goods sold must also match any sample you were shown in-store, or any description in a brochure.


who is responsible

your goods fail to meet any of the above criteria then you could have a claim under the Sale of Goods Act.
If you want to make a claim under the Sale of Goods Act you have several possible ways of resolving your issue, depending on the circumstances and on what you want done.

are against the retailer – the company that sold you the product – not the manufacturer, and so you must make any claim


However, the Sale of Goods Act doesn’t apply to goods you've bought on hire purchase (HP).
However, even with major purchases or complex items, it’s safest to work on the basis you usually have no more than three to four weeks from when you receive it to reject it.


returning faulty goods

If you buy a product that turns out to be faulty, you can choose to reject it which means you can give it back and get a refund.
But, the law only gives you a reasonable time to do this – what's reasonable depends on the product and how obvious the fault is.
However, even with major purchases or complex items, it’s safest to work on the basis you usually have no more than three to four weeks from when you receive it to reject it.

faulty goods replaced or repaired

You have the right to get faulty goods replaced or repaired if it's too late to reject them. You can ask the retailer to do either, but they can normally choose to do whatever would be cheapest.
Under the Sale of Goods Act, the retailer must either repair or replace faulty goods 'within a reasonable time but without causing significant inconvenience'.
If the seller doesn't do this, you're entitled to claim either:
• a reduction on the purchase price, or
• your money back, minus an amount for the usage you've had of the goods (called recision)
If the retailer refuses to repair the goods, and they won't replace them either, you may have the right to arrange for someone else to repair your item, and then claim compensation from the retailer for the cost of doing this.
You have six years to take a claim to court for faulty goods in England, Wales and Northern Ireland; in Scotland you have five years.

Proving your claim for faulty goods

If your claim under the Sale of Goods Act ends up in court, you may have to prove that the fault was present when you bought the item and not, for example, something which was the result of normal wear and tear.
If your claim is about a problem that arises within six months of buying the product, it's up to the retailer to prove that the goods were of satisfactory quality, fit for purpose, or as described when it sold them.
For example, by showing that the problem was caused by an external factor such as accidental damage.
To get a faulty good repaired or replaced, follow our step-by-step guide.

link for further

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-righ...e-of-goods-act


quoted from which has been updated since follow the link

I had a microwave which was 2 yrs old in imaculate condition purchased from Currys. All of a sudden it died. I took it back and they sent me a voucher through the post for 2/3 value taking into account the amount of time I owned the lack of use and condition returned. The fact it cost so little to produce is of no bearing on you as consumer. Again read the link as more power has been given to the consumer.
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Old 28th December 2015
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Re: sale of goods

Thanks for your replies. I have checked out Sale of Goods act, but in October this year the Consumer Rights act came into force. See here, http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-righ...mer-rights-act.
As it is over 6 months since I bought the item, it is up to me to prove the good were faulty when bought.

I worked for a large retailer for some time in the 90's, and to keep our customers coming back, looked very favouribly on this sort of thing. The customer would have got a voucher at the very least. I remember changing a fridge that had rust marks on the side, 7 years after purchase, and it had been stored in the customers garage. That was one customer that came back to shop with us. I will not be going back to this particular garden centre, and will be contacting Trading Standards. And naming the centre on here, FB, and any other place I can
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Old 28th December 2015
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Re: sale of goods

I think trying to destroy a company over a £20 light is unreasonable. If your camera goes faulty after the garantee period you take up the repair directly with Olympus and will have to pay for the repair. We all know Christmas lights do not last long, on the hole not because they are bad quality but because we have to store them for eleven months of the year.

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Old 28th December 2015
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Re: sale of goods

Quote:
Originally Posted by son of sid View Post
As far as I can recall consumer law dictates that an item should last 6 years in normal use and you are entitled to get the item fixed or replaced, and a refund if this can't be done.

Try consumeractiongroup.co.uk for advice on how to proceed.

Be aware that if the retailer will not refund or replace the unit you will need to go to small claims court to seek redress.
I don't think this is the case. Similarly, a manufacturer's guarantee period has little or no value under English law.

Like many aspects of English civil law it comes down to what is 'reasonable', and 'what the man in the street would reasonably expect'.

If you bought a new camera body for £1,000 and it failed after eighteen months you would be in a strong position to demand a repair. The County Court would almost certainly back you up on this.

I suspect a County Court judge would take the view that a £1,000 camera body should last for several years, so if you were to go to court you may well get a judgement in your favour anything up to four or five years after purchase.

I should add that, in my experience, County Court judges usually lean towards the consumer, but this cannot be guaranteed.

However, if we were talking about a compact camera costing (say) £75 , or a set of Christmas lights costing £20 the bar for these "reasonable expectations" would be set very much lower.

As far as I know the six year period that you quote only applies to the availability of spare parts and repairs (after the date of last manufacture), but this would only apply to items that it would be reasonable to expect repairs and replacements for.

None of the above relates to safety recalls, which should be issued until it is unlikely that any products remain in service.
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Old 28th December 2015
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Re: sale of goods

It's a difficult one. Clearly, however long you have had the lights they have actually had very little use due to their seasonal nature. On the other hand two years is probably a little long for making a claim under consumer protection laws unless you can prove they were faulty at the time of purchase. But regardless of the law, it always amazes me that retailers don't show more goodwill in these situations.

By standing firm against your claim the owner has avoided a loss, but had he let you chose something of equivalent value off the shelf it would have actually cost him far less than £20. As it stands you have got the hump, will probably never shop there again and will tell hundreds of people via social media about your bad experience.

Supposing he had offered a replacement with good grace; you would have felt really good and probably browsed for something else to buy whilst you were there. You might even have treated yourself to coffee and cake in the café that all garden centres seem to have these days. You would certainly shop there again. On this basis, it does not make economic or business sense to refuse to compensate the customer.

I find it rather ironic that this poor standard of service seems to be so prevalent these days, when we are constantly bombarded for feedback following online purchases and some high street shops (such as Currys) have electronic touch pads at the exit to record the quality of service experienced, whilst others print web site addresses on the till receipt, inviting you to rate the service.

It seems that many organisations expect an "excellent" rating just for completing a routine transaction, but I have news for them. Truly excellent service is when they go beyond normal expectations to help the customer, or resolve a complaint in a manner that leaves the customer not only fully satisfied but also feeling valued and respected.

For example, I recently visited the Pizza Hut website to check opening times of our local restaurant. I noticed that they were doing a two main meals for one offer, I just needed to mention this online promotion when placing my order. At the restaurant I did just that and the waitress asked for the promotional code, a requirement I had failed to notice. I accepted that it was my fault and told her not to worry, but her response surprised me. She suggested I use my phone to log onto the website and when I told her we didn't have phones with internet connection she pulled out her own and did it for us. This is precisely the helpful, can do attitude that defines excellent service.
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  #12  
Old 29th December 2015
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Re: sale of goods

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuiko View Post
I find it rather ironic that this poor standard of service seems to be so prevalent these days, when we are constantly bombarded for feedback following online purchases and some high street shops (such as Currys) have electronic touch pads at the exit to record the quality of service experienced, whilst others print web site addresses on the till receipt, inviting you to rate the service.

It seems that many organisations expect an "excellent" rating just for completing a routine transaction, but I have news for them. Truly excellent service is when they go beyond normal expectations to help the customer, or resolve a complaint in a manner that leaves the customer not only fully satisfied but also feeling valued and respected.
I often wonder how much discretion store staff have in these matters. If it is an independent outlet the Owner or Duty Manager could probably give you a replacement at little or no cost, and could return the faulty goods to their supplier for a credit or refund.

However, many large outlets seem to operate at the mercy of the computer, so if the "computer says no" their hands really are tied behind their backs unless they are able to override the system, or are prepared to fill in a lot of paperwork.

With regard to customer surveys I feel these are extremely cynical, and rather than seeking to improve the customer's experience are all about calibrating standards of service and quality to the absolute minimum that their customers will accept.

I'm sorry to say that this seems to be an English phenomenon as I seem to receive much better service north of the border and in mainland Europe than at home.

I also find it interesting that business that have come into foreign ownership (specifically Indian and Chinese) seem to have a much more positive approach towards their customers than those owned by British or American outfits. And oddly enough, these companies seem to be growing and pleasing their customers much more rapidly under Indian/Chinese ownership than they ever did as British or American owned corporations.

Thinking of hotels in particular, I cannot remember the last time I was disappointed abroad, whilst I can think of plenty of seedy (and not particularly cheap) establishments that I have stayed at here in the UK.

I often stay at an hotel in Genoa, which is always spotless, and the food is good. Better still, as I am a regular customer they gladly accept email bookings without asking for my credit card. However, none of the hotels I stay at in England will accept a booking without having credit card details in advance, and they certainly won't let you take a room without swiping your card.

When it comes to my own work, I find that contractors abroad are far more willing to put things right than similar contractors here; most of whom would rather spend £ thousands on legal fees trying to find a get-out in the Contract than spending half the amount on rectifying their unsatisfactory workmanship.
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Old 29th December 2015
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Re: sale of goods

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveJ View Post
I think trying to destroy a company over a £20 light is unreasonable. If your camera goes faulty after the garantee period you take up the repair directly with Olympus and will have to pay for the repair. We all know Christmas lights do not last long, on the hole not because they are bad quality but because we have to store them for eleven months of the year.

Steve

I am not out to destroy the company Steve. I didn't even expect a full refund or replacement, as I wrote in the OP, a voucher for a tenner would have been enough, and as John, (Zuiko) wrote, I would have shopped there again.
I will write to the company, a private company, expressing my dismay at the level of service. and see what response I get.
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Old 29th December 2015
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Re: sale of goods

Quote:
Originally Posted by Naughty Nigel View Post
I often wonder how much discretion store staff have in these matters. If it is an independent outlet the Owner or Duty Manager could probably give you a replacement at little or no cost, and could return the faulty goods to their supplier for a credit or refund.
After I had been told by the sales person that they could't help me, I asked to see the department manager. A man came and told me the same, not refund, nothing at all.
I then told him that they had lost a customer and went to reception to t=express my dismay and was told that the 'manager' was in fact the owner of the centre.
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Old 29th December 2015
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Re: sale of goods

Hi, back in 2010 I had problems with my then Sony computer which i purchased in 2008 I paid over £1200 being new to computers I even paid out for an extended guarantee, thus making the guarantee time 2 yrs. after 2 yrs and 2 months the hard drive packed up and the Sony shop wanted to charge me a £65 check up fee up front that was non refundable to repair or replace the hard drive and if they found a non fault ( manufacture) I would have to pay the rest for the repair of which they the shop would charge. I paid £80 for a private repair and memory upgrade and got it fixed only for it to break down a further six months down the line with the motherboard packing up.
I then switched to apple and havent looked back! Since then I have never ever bought anything Sony.
That includes their cameras.

I did however have a nice experience in jessops last week when the Olympus rep said hello and asked how I was, he remembered me from a previous encounter.
He also remembered my interest in fungi photography how nice was that!
Kind regards mike.
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