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The lounge Relax, take a break from photo and camera talk - have a chat about something else for a change. Just keep it clean and polite!

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  #31  
Old 26th June 2016
Jim Ford Jim Ford is offline
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Re: Do you want a second chance?

Friends of ours in Germany and Greece have 'phoned us up and said that they can't believe what's happened and that the UK is the laughing stock of Europe!

Jim
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  #32  
Old 26th June 2016
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Re: Do you want a second chance?

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Originally Posted by Daveart View Post
Hi, If we did leave, it turns out it could cost 400 billion sterling to do so, plus all the trade losses, no one ever mentioned that till after the voting was over.
If you work that out it would be over 45 years annual subscriptions, and that is just the tip of the iceberg need not say any more.
There's been a funny smell in the air of late... like somebody has filled their pants. Either that or, my dog has passed wind.

Or, could it be that as we placed all our eggs in one basket, it means... - Holy Crap! Batman... 'We're going to have to bail-out the banks yet again?'
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  #33  
Old 26th June 2016
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Re: Do you want a second chance?

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Nevertheless, the reason why Leave amassed just enough votes to beat Remain was because many people decided to protest vote against the Establishment. They didn't vote on the referendum issues. The problem is that if the economy gets damaged by Leave's win, it will be these mainly lower income people who will suffer the most.

Ian
Yes, I agree that's the sad and ironic likely outcome, Ian.

External investors like Nissan in Sunderland and Honda in Swindon are manufacturing in the UK in large part because of the preferential access it gives them to the large EU market. Nothing's going to happen immediately, but it is highly unlikely we'll see new model lines going to the UK plants rather than places like Portugal and Eastern Europe. Similarly there will be no new plants built here from commercial investors in Japan, India, China etc, which is where all the future money is.

So, jobs in the UK manufacturing sector will stagnate and then fall over (say) a 5 - 8 year timescale, and local unemployment in the north and west will rise, and hence demands on the UK benefits budget will rise. We are quite likely to get a more right wing government soon, so said benefits to all those angry people in the north and west are likely to be even tougher than they are presently.

I wish I had a fistful of fairy dust to scatter and attract massive investment to this 'proud trading nation' from across the world, but i suspect it is going to be confirmed that international finance has moved on from the 1950s.

Of course all bets are off if the EU collapses, but if it does then it will have been precipitated by Brexit.
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  #34  
Old 26th June 2016
Jim Ford Jim Ford is offline
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Re: Do you want a second chance?

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Originally Posted by Naughty Nigel View Post
If more young people had been motivated to vote we could have had a different outcome
They were probably too busy watching Jeremy Kyle!

Jim
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  #35  
Old 26th June 2016
Jim Ford Jim Ford is offline
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Re: Do you want a second chance?

I wonder if Cameron is making himself scarce because as the population realises how much they've lost and the damage that has been done to the UK, they will turn on whoever their current leader is. Perhaps he remembers what happened to Mussolini when the Italian population turned on him!

Jim
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  #36  
Old 26th June 2016
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Re: Do you want a second chance?

Have been reading some comments from those on the other side of the channel. It seems to be a mixed bag. Well done for voting out to the laughing stock of the EU. Consensus of opinions not too far emoved from our voting result.

Appears the 'one hat fits all' remains a myth as some heads are either too small or so large the elastic won't stretch enough.

Let's just hope 'all the lunatics who run the asylum' can agree to come together for the good of all rather than what's in it for me.
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  #37  
Old 26th June 2016
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Re: Do you want a second chance?

My views on " European Parliament " have been well documented on here, so a little light relief ?????

A 24 year old graduate with a Sociology degree gave me this as his prime reason to remain.

" If we leave, it would mess up the summer football transfers! Other than that, don't know enough to vote either way."

Does that make you worried about the future?
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  #38  
Old 26th June 2016
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Re: Do you want a second chance?

I've always queried the value of a sociology degree

The response does not surprise me, but yes, it worries me! Some said the vote should be for 16 year olds upwards with a cut off age to prevent old buggers interfering.
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  #39  
Old 26th June 2016
Harold Gough Harold Gough is offline
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Re: Do you want a second chance?

Has anyone seen any data on how many of the electorate said, in advance of the campaigns, that they did not want the referendum?

Harold
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  #40  
Old 26th June 2016
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Re: Do you want a second chance?

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Originally Posted by pdk42 View Post
That's now pretty clear - but it's odd that no-one spotted this coming before. If they had, I doubt that the Remain campaign would have rolled out so many Establishment figures to defend the EU. For that matter, it might have been better if the government (PM & cabinet) had remained neutral.
I don't think it would have made any difference. Many working class voters who had never voted before or not for a very long time turned out and many of them did not take notice of even the 'scaremongering' of the Remain campaign.

Anyway, even if the figures were reversed the Brexit side would be complaining just as much as the Remain side is now.

We have to face it that the country is dangerously split down the middle.

Ian
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  #41  
Old 26th June 2016
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Re: Do you want a second chance?

It seemed to me that no one listened to the 'working class' who live cheek by jowl with the immigrants - not the UK government or the opposition (the opposition's answer being to build more houses, schools and hospitals, what, how??) Of course if you mention immigration you're immediately labled a racist which displays a lack of understanding.
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  #42  
Old 26th June 2016
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Re: Do you want a second chance?

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It seemed to me that no one listened to the 'working class' who live cheek by jowl with the immigrants - not the UK government or the opposition (the opposition's answer being to build more houses, schools and hospitals, what, how??) Of course if you mention immigration you're immediately labled a racist which displays a lack of understanding.
I think you are right that the concerns of these Brexit voters haven't been met. But Brexit has implied a lot of things that might be interpreted as solutions but may not actually come to pass. On top of that some of the immigration issue is not to do with the EU at all.

It's a mess all around. My personal feeling is that if Remain had won, we'd have been more sensitive to what the Brexit protest vote meant and at the same time we'd have a strong position to reform Europe - for the benefit if all.

Ian
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  #43  
Old 26th June 2016
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Re: Do you want a second chance?

With respect Ian, immigration has a lot to do with the EU, with free movement of labour being a corner stone of membership. Although Cameron gained an emergency break for a number of years, I suspect a trial case judged by the European Court would have overruled the 'agreement'. The EU needs to change, and in due course I hope it does. As for the single currency, probably the biggest mistake ever, it's destroyed Greece, Spain, Portugal... actually, most of Southern Europe.
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  #44  
Old 26th June 2016
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Re: Do you want a second chance?

I'd like a second chance at this morning. Despite getting up in plenty of time I pissed about and missed the best of the colour in the sky before sunrise. I packed my landscape kit so no 350mm, which meant there was two Belted Kingfishers in a tree behind me. At least I kept one of the Kingfishers amused as it flew alongside the car when I was leaving.
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  #45  
Old 26th June 2016
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Re: Do you want a second chance?

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Originally Posted by Ricoh View Post
With respect Ian, immigration has a lot to do with the EU, with free movement of labour being a corner stone of membership. Although Cameron gained an emergency break for a number of years, I suspect a trial case judged by the European Court would have overruled the 'agreement'. The EU needs to change, and in due course I hope it does. As for the single currency, probably the biggest mistake ever, it's destroyed Greece, Spain, Portugal... actually, most of Southern Europe.
There are two or even three strands to the immigration issue; EU free movement, routine immigration from non-EU countries and refugee immigrants. I have seen Leave voters specifically documenting examples of the latter two as motivating their reasons for voting Leave. On top of all this is the fact that if we choose to go for continued access to the Single Market, which is by no means an impossibility, then there could well be basically be no change in the immigration policy.

I completely agree that the EU needs to change and change radically. The thing that Leave don't want us to dwell on is that there is huge appetite for reform on the continent. It will happen, probably faster now the referendum has happened.

It's easy to point to what's not to like about the EU but the EU has been very beneficial too. I don't want the UK to join the Euro but I think it's not clever to dismiss the Euro either.

Yes there has been turmoil in the Euro zone and there have been grave mistakes and Greece is a prime example. But look at Ireland; they took the heat and now their economy is really motoring. Spain and Portugal are now both recovering. Their economies and national tax and other fiscal infrastructures have been modernised and made stronger. It's happening to Greece too. Maybe the human cost was too much but that's all in the past now.

There is still a question mark over the future of the Euro but when I travel around the world I see more interest in the Euro and the Dollar in foreign exchange than any other currencies, including the pound.

Ian
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