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Camera conference General and model-specific E-System camera chat.

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  #16  
Old 12th February 2008
Ellie Ellie is offline
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Re: Some Raw vs JPEG education please

I've often been told that my logic is incomprehensible, but it works for me.

I did take some pictures using RAW this evening, because I knew they wouldn't work in JPEG. I was pleased to be able to do what was needed, but I can't do it very often and with files of 22mB I'll run out of space far too quickly. I've got pictures on discs that are unreadable on our new DVD drive (they work on XP and the drive works properly with everything else) so can't guarantee discs will work on the next thing M$ chooses to bring out.

I feel as if I'm rambling, and that isn't a good thing, because I can go on for hours once I've started.
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  #17  
Old 12th February 2008
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Re: Some Raw vs JPEG education please

Hey Ellie - good to read you're trying out RAW (ORF) format for some shots. Just a fyi: don't forget that once you have the Olympus ORF/RAW file on your PC you can then make any adjustments to it and save it as a JPG, which will be a much smaller file than the ORF. You can then delete the ORF if you want to - thus saving a lot of space.

Oh and you're not rambling... this is a good discussion and I am sure has many readers.
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  #18  
Old 12th February 2008
Ellie Ellie is offline
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Re: Some Raw vs JPEG education please

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You can then delete the ORF if you want to - thus saving a lot of space.
You mean throw things away!

Aren't supermarket receipts potential heirlooms.
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  #19  
Old 12th February 2008
ianc ianc is offline
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Re: Some Raw vs JPEG education please

There is nothing wrong with throwing out the ORF files as long as you keep a JPEG, a TIFF, and a DNG copy of the file plus remember to save backup copies.

Ian C.
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Old 12th February 2008
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Re: Some Raw vs JPEG education please

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Originally Posted by Ellie View Post
You mean throw things away!

Aren't supermarket receipts potential heirlooms.
Hehe... but Ellie... if you only shoot in JPG format now, then there's no difference you shoot in RAW, and then end up with the same file as if you'd shot in JPG.
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  #21  
Old 12th February 2008
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Invicta Invicta is offline
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Re: Some Raw vs JPEG education please

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Originally Posted by Ellie View Post
You mean throw things away!

Aren't supermarket receipts potential heirlooms.
Take a photo of till receipts in raw and convert to DNG. Then you can keep them as an heirloom since DNG is more likely to be supported in 20 years time than today's raw formats.
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  #22  
Old 12th February 2008
Jim Ford Jim Ford is offline
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Re: Some Raw vs JPEG education please

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellie View Post
:
I did take some pictures using RAW this evening, because I knew they wouldn't work in JPEG. I was pleased to be able to do what was needed, but I can't do it very often and with files of 22mB I'll run out of space far too quickly.
What camera were you getting 22Meg files from - my E3 produces ORF files in the region of 10-12Meg?

Jim Ford
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  #23  
Old 12th February 2008
Jim Ford Jim Ford is offline
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Re: Some Raw vs JPEG education please

Quote:
Originally Posted by theMusicMan View Post
Just a fyi: don't forget that once you have the Olympus ORF/RAW file on your PC you can then make any adjustments to it and save it as a JPG, which will be a much smaller file than the ORF. You can then delete the ORF if you want to - thus saving a lot of space.
For me, throwing away the original 'as shot' data, whether it be the ORF file, or as in my case the DNG file is a huge 'no-no' - unless of course the shot was a 'non-keeper' in the first place! To do so is like getting some film process 'snaps' back from the chemist and throwing away the negs!
As long as you keep the ORF/DNG file you can go back at a later date - when your skills at Photoshop (say) have improved, and redevelop the image. I often find when browsing shots I've taken previously I find I can make some improvement.

When the camera turns the data captured by the sensor into a JPEG, it discards some of the data, and each time you edit a JPEG you destroy more of it. This data cannot be recovered. When you edit and ORF/DNG file, the data is _not_ altered, only the interpretation of it by the software. It's very much like film processing - you can put the neg in an enlarger, crop, dodge and burn the image, but the neg remains unaltered.

I really feel that if you've got the technical interest and skills to use a digital SLR, you're not doing it justice shooting a format more suited to 'point and shoot' cameras!

Jim Ford
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  #24  
Old 12th February 2008
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Re: Some Raw vs JPEG education please

Jim - I suggested this as advice to Ellie in this instance and am not expressing this as advice to everyone. My advice should be read in the context of the thread as a whole.

Ellie has decided she won't shoot in RAW and has her camera set to shoot in JPG mode... I am advocating that she should use RAW. Ellie has expressed concerns that in order to do this she would use what she feels are excessive amounts of storage. So, my suggestion to her of shooting in RAW, processing as required, saving the resulting image as a JPG, then discarding the RAW will result in exactly the same storage requirements as she has now - via shooting in JPG mode. The difference of course is that Ellie can edit the RAW file if she so requires.

Of course, as a rule to all, I recommend shooting and saving in RAW format, but in this specific case, I feel my suggestion to Ellie is fine.
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Old 12th February 2008
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Re: Some Raw vs JPEG education please

Quick reply, I shouldn't be here.

Invicta, your reply made me chuckle.

Quote:
What camera were you getting 22Meg files from
The E-400. I've mentioned it somewhere else because I couldn't believe how big they are.

Keep talking, please, then there'll be some interesting things to read and think about when I get back from our break
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  #26  
Old 13th February 2008
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Re: Some Raw vs JPEG education please

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellie View Post
Keep talking, please, then there'll be some interesting things to read and think about when I get back from our break
Hi Ellie

As you're not there then you won't read this which make this somewhat of a strange post.. ?

For me (and I started this mess) It comes down to do I want to make decisions now or am I willing to invest in some storage in the hope that I will decide to do something later ... hmm - jam today/jam tomorrow?

As per some of my prior posts I think that the Oly JPEG engine is actually quite good and trying to work to get the image right first time will make you a better photographer. I've seen lazyness coming into quite a number of pictures since people started mass RAW processing. It's like the challenge you used to have if you shot slide (which I did in film).

Yes storage is costly, but not immense and if you are even thinking about it then it's worth making the investment even in the short term whilst you investigate. A quick calculation shows that you would get over 210 22 Mb files on a 4.7 Gb DVD and you can buy 100 4.7 Gb DVD's for under 17 which accoring to my calculations gives you over 10000 images (assuming 2 copies just in case).

How long it will take to shoot that many pictures depends on how many you shoot, but If I was you don't close doors.

Given ALL of that I only process about 1% of my RAW files because as I've said I like the taking process not the developing process and therefore the minimum I need to do on the PC the better.

Sorry to Jim I don't agree that you have to process RAW to get the best out of a DSLR - that's why you buy lenses and filters (although I know some now think the Polarising filter is a thing of the past just change the colours in Photoshop - yeuch !)

Regards
Andy
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