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The lounge Relax, take a break from photo and camera talk - have a chat about something else for a change. Just keep it clean and polite!

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  #226  
Old 15th January 2019
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Re: How are we going to save the planet?

Dave, would you like to summarise what he says as I don't have time to listen to him drone on for over half an hour. There will always be climate change deniers just as there's still a Flat Earth Society (which incidentally once claimed to have members all over the globe!). Why should anyone believe him over the actual climate scientists who study actual climate science?

"Giaever's share of the prize was specifically for his "experimental discoveries regarding tunnelling phenomena in superconductors" (Wikipedia) which hardly qualifies him as a climate expert.
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  #227  
Old 15th January 2019
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Re: How are we going to save the planet?

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Dave, would you like to summarise what he says as I don't have time to listen to him drone on for over half an hour. There will always be climate change deniers just as there's still a Flat Earth Society (which incidentally once claimed to have members all over the globe!). Why should anyone believe him over the actual climate scientists who study actual climate science?

"Giaever's share of the prize was specifically for his "experimental discoveries regarding tunnelling phenomena in superconductors" (Wikipedia) which hardly qualifies him as a climate expert.
I first should declare that I believe the climate IS changing BUT the impact of mankind on this is not as big as is being claimed.

He was asked to speak at the climate change meeting I guess to give an independent view of the claims made over recent years. He states up front he had not previously done any work on climate change but had simply looked at the claims made and their supporting evidence for him to make his speech.

The main thrust of his argument was that the scientific method has been consciously ignored and in fact abused by many of the claims made.
He is, in fact, quite humorous and makes his case very well, all be it a little slowly.

He gives examples of what was claimed and simply exposes the absence of a true scientific method in the interpretation of the data.

Its a simple as that.

His audience listened and even applauded his speech.
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  #228  
Old 15th January 2019
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Re: How are we going to save the planet?

Thanks. He may well be scientifically trained but that doesn't qualify him to pose as an "expert" on a field which he has not specialised. I was trained in engineering, but in electronics so I wouldn't claim to be an expert on bridge design. Apart from maybe Wien Bridges . Climate is an immensely complex subject and there are doubtless studies which are flawed but the concensus seems to be that the recent more rapid changes coincide with the rise in industrialisation. Diet is another area open to misinterpretation, remember all the fuss about animal fats being bad for us? That has been proven to be untrue and even the guy who first published the work admits the conclusion was flawed. I never stopped eating butter anyway!

As for the applause at the end, audiences are generally polite .
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  #229  
Old 15th January 2019
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Re: How are we going to save the planet?

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Thanks. He may well be scientifically trained but that doesn't qualify him to pose as an "expert" on a field which he has not specialised. I was trained in engineering, but in electronics so I wouldn't claim to be an expert on bridge design. Apart from maybe Wien Bridges . Climate is an immensely complex subject and there are doubtless studies which are flawed but the concensus seems to be that the recent more rapid changes coincide with the rise in industrialisation. Diet is another area open to misinterpretation, remember all the fuss about animal fats being bad for us? That has been proven to be untrue and even the guy who first published the work admits the conclusion was flawed. I never stopped eating butter anyway!

As for the applause at the end, audiences are generally polite .
He never claimed to be an expert, in fact exactly the opposite.

He started by saying

Global warming has become a new religion because you can't discuss it.
Examples of that are seen even on this thread


His overall message was that

"Science" comes in many forms

* Real Science -
* Pathological science - people fool themselves because one experiment shows their theory is correct.
* Fraudulent Science - people who cheat on purpose
* Junk Science - eg in medical field claims based on tests on only a few people.

* Pseudoscience - begins with a hypothesis usually one which is appealing emotionally, and then looks only for items which appear to support it.

He leaves the audience with this question - Is global warming a Pseudoscience?
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  #230  
Old 15th January 2019
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Re: How are we going to save the planet?

To answer the question - no, I don't think it is fundamentally, though there may well be a lot of people with agendas trying to prove otherwise. Oil companies for example. The problem with all these things is there is usually a political agenda somewhere trying to prove a result one way or the other and science based on statistics is always going to be open to, well, interpretation. The diesel vehicles debacle is one such. As someone who used to do a lot of driving back in the good (smelly!) old days it was pretty obvious that the exhaust emissions were liable to be unhealthy. I visited Oxford some 20 years or so ago and couldn't believe the level of smog in the city centre from the buses and taxis. My father, who smoked quite heavily and lived to be 93, was convinced there was nowt wrong with tobacco and it was diesel smoke causing all the lung cancer! After all, the tobacco companies said smoking tobacco was good for you.


That climate change is a thing is undeniable, the causes open to a degree of conjecture. Up here in the Dales where they used to dig the sheep out of the snowdrifts almost every year we seldom get much snow nowadays. I don't think the sun has changed much so something else must be causing the change. This simply doesn't happen now:


https://youtu.be/-ugIoMD495E


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  #231  
Old 15th January 2019
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Re: How are we going to save the planet?

A general flaw with humans is that we tend to believe what we want to be true. Why else would there be so many frankly implausible religions that attract millions of fervent believers, when there is absolutely no hard evidence that any of them are based upon even a grain of truth. Conversely we are often all too eager to reject a mountain of indisputable proof if it doesn't conform to what we want to hear.
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  #232  
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Re: How are we going to save the planet?

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A general flaw with humans is that we tend to believe what we want to be true. Why else would there be so many frankly implausible religions that attract millions of fervent believers, when there is absolutely no hard evidence that any of them are based upon even a grain of truth. Conversely we are often all too eager to reject a mountain of indisputable proof if it doesn't conform to what we want to hear.
Very true.
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  #233  
Old 15th January 2019
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Re: How are we going to save the planet?

It's called "confirmation bias" I think.
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  #234  
Old 15th January 2019
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Re: How are we going to save the planet?

It seems to me that if global warming isn't caused by human activity, there isn't any harm in behaving if it is and increasing the use or renewable energy sources. Conversely, if global warming is caused by human activity and we unwittingly ignore it, the cost to the environment could be catastrophic.

Can we take afford to take a 'calculated risk', where the 'calculations' are made by inexpert scientists, politicians and businessmen, but the whole World takes 'the risk'?

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  #235  
Old 16th January 2019
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Re: How are we going to save the planet?

Seems they are all flying to Davos next week to warn us about the impact of climate change.

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...fight-says-wef
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  #236  
Old 16th January 2019
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Re: How are we going to save the planet?

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Originally Posted by wornish View Post
Seems they are all flying to Davos next week to warn us about the impact of climate change.

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...fight-says-wef
That does seem to be a trait of all those seeking to get us to reduce our consumption of the planets resources while they frantically gobble them up themselves. How about they carried on like they expect us to? (and miss an all expenses paid trip to Davos? Not going to happen is it!)
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