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  #16  
Old 29th January 2012
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Re: Car insurance for young driver

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Originally Posted by sponner View Post
Your maths is a bit flawed I'm afraid.

It doesn't factor in the inreased cost of insurance if you decide to get legal or the effect of criminal convictions if you carry on driving (not to mention a few months inside for disqualified driving)
I'm afraid I politely disagree, it's a big "If you decide to get legal" that's the point. These people aren't afraid of the courts and you don't go to prison these days for GBH let alone driving while disqualified. The right minded, law abiding folk in our country are being taken for mugs by the feckless and criminal element.
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  #17  
Old 30th January 2012
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Re: Car insurance for young driver

I saw someone get 6 months for disqualified driving. I thnk it was 6, could have been 3. I can't remember as it was a few years ago now when I was observing in magistrates court as research for my novels. (It wasn't his first offence.) And I knew someone who went inside for a month. But that was at least 22 years ago.

But sentencing guidelines have changed since then so you may well be right... might be suspended in the first instance. But the criminal conviction would screw up future insurance and any trips to the US.

The other thing to bear in mind is that the car can be seized there and then, which could be very inconvenient. It also once led to the deaths of several teeagers who lost their car and then crammed into another, and had an accident.

You can understand why people do it, but it's not worth it. Not in the long term.
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  #18  
Old 30th January 2012
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Re: Car insurance for young driver

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Originally Posted by paullus View Post
I believe that in America and maybe other countries individual drivers have to earn their bad reputations. They start of with low affordable insurance policies which increase significantly if they have crashes or commit offences. Unlike here where all young drivers are tarred with the same brush.
It's a long time since I worked in the US and I was in my early 30's then so I can't say if the above is true.

In Canada it varies province by province. In Saskatchewan everyone is insured via SGI (Saskatchewan Government Insurance). While Ontario is similar to the UK. When I moved from Saskatchewan to Ontario my insurance tripled for the same vehicle despite never having had an accident or traffic ticket in Saskatchewan.
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  #19  
Old 30th January 2012
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Re: Car insurance for young driver

It's difficult to see how this can be resolved, at least in the short term. Because surprisingly car insurance is not as profitable as it would seem.

"In 2009, the unadjusted net combined ratio for UK based insurers was 122.7%* for personal lines motor (source: Ernst & Young analysis of 2009 FSA Motor Returns)" taken from http://www.ey.com/Publication/vwLUAssets/Bringing_profitability_back_from_the_brink_of_exti nction/$FILE/EY_CII_Bringing_profitability_back_from_the_brink_ of_extinction.pdf

Basically meaning that for every 100 taken in premiums the industry payed out 122.70. A quick look at news reports would suggest that the industry doesn't expect to get back to a level where premiums exceed claims till at least 2013. And that will be achieved largely at our expense. Of course it isn't all bad for the insurers, they are increasingly making money from 'add ons' (breakdown cover/referrals etc where they are paid a commission), and of course insurance makes money by re-investing our premiums, but it's not a particularly healthy set of figures.

There are all sorts of arguments as to how this state has come about. From those that claim the insurance companies are innocent (it's all down to no-win no-fee insurance claims) to the more suspicious who might suggest that the tie in between insurance and the vehicle repair trade has at least contributed (and of course a 'recommended repairer' must somewhere be paying a fee out of the repair cost to pay for that recommendation).

No real help either for the new driver or the rest of us who find car insurance an increasing expense.

Nick
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  #20  
Old 30th January 2012
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Re: Car insurance for young driver

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Originally Posted by Nick Temple-Fry View Post
There are all sorts of arguments as to how this state has come about. From those that claim the insurance companies are innocent (it's all down to no-win no-fee insurance claims) to the more suspicious who might suggest that the tie in between insurance and the vehicle repair trade has at least contributed (and of course a 'recommended repairer' must somewhere be paying a fee out of the repair cost to pay for that recommendation).

No real help either for the new driver or the rest of us who find car insurance an increasing expense.

Nick
That opens another can of worms. My wife was hit while stationary by a clown driving a customer's Audi he was testing while his mate sat along side him. The driver of the Audi actually admitted his mistake at the scene and the damage was very minor. Later though the two lads lied and accused my wife of hitting them, no independent witnesses unfortunately but my wife had thoughtfully photographed the damage and sent them to our insurance company for what good it did. The damage on our car I literally polished out with T-Cut. The damaged to the other car was confined to a black rubber mark on the nearside front alloy wheel where it had hit the front tyre of our car and a paint scuff along the front wing and door. For some inexplicable reason the Audi had two new alloy wheels and two doors fitted though and to add insult to injury twelve months later they tried to sue us through the County Court for recovery of over 3 months worth of credit hire car charges to the tune of 3500! This was reduced to 1200 at court. We complained and asked for an independent report on the damage to the Audi but it all fell on deaf ears and we were essentially fobbed off. Thank goodness for protected no claims and legal protection otherwise we'd have been in a right mess.
Just a word of advice to anyone who is involved in a collision no matter how minor, get witness details if available. I was hit and forced off the road by someone who then failed to stop but not before I got the registration number. I also had independent witnesses and the Police traced the driver and he was successfully prosecuted. Getting the money out of his insurance company for the damage to my car was another battle though because he wouldn't fill out an accident claim form! I got it in the end but it would have been cheaper for them to have just paid up the 350 I'd paid out in repairs. When I eventually was forced to claim through my insurance they got an extra 150 for loss of use of my car.

LMGruchy you are quite right it is not worth it in the long run, to right minded law abiding people that is but we're not talking about them. To those who choose not to insure their vehicles, who don't give a damn about the law, moral responsibillity and the potential consequences of their actions the savings justify the risk.
If I was caught without insurance I would definitely lose my job, pension and consequently probably my home, so it's not even a thought worth contemplating for one second.

Just as a matter of interest THe Mail On Sunday are heading a campaign to name and shame insurance companies who appear to up to no good.
You can send your horror stories to claimofshame@mailonsunday.co.uk

Steve.
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  #21  
Old 30th January 2012
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Re: Car insurance for young driver

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Originally Posted by LMGruchy View Post
Is there a "Pass Plus" scheme near you? I haven't dared look at young driver insurances because we can't afford leesons for my kids let alone insurance. Maybe it would help? I don't know, grasping at straws here.

Sorry I missed your earlier post. My Son has his Pass Plus (He's been subjected to my input both on and off road and on a skid pan too) Many insurance comparison websites don't ask for it though. Also it seems that in many cases the companies that do recognize Pass Plus tend to be the more expensive ones.
Having said that the benefits of Pass Plus and for that matter any manner of further driver training cannot be emphasised enough for drivers of any age. I should know, driver training is part of my job.

Steve
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  #22  
Old 30th January 2012
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Re: Car insurance for young driver

IMHO, the whole insurance thing has become a complete scam - particularly car insurance. I think it is completely wrong to penalise all young drivers for the sake of those that are reckless. My 18 year old son is about to take his test and the thought of him wasting so much money on insurance bothers me a lot.

Young drivers should pay similar premiums to others - should they subsequently have an accident that can be attributed to their own recklessness, it should be their next premium that increases. This would give those young drivers who are careful a sporting chance. When I was 18, myself and several of my mates all took our tests and none of us had accidents...ironically, it was decades later when I had my first one and I had spent several years in a driving profession before this.

Surely the purpose of passing a driving test is a statement to say that an individual has met standards set down by law that make them a safe driver?

It is a bit like assuming that every 18 year old who can now legally drink will get completely bladdered and cause trouble each time they wealk though the door of a pub.

High motoring insurance costs do little more than force more uninsured drivers onto the roads and whilst I do not condone this action, I can understand why.

Until insurance companies are properly regulated, the problem will simply get worse. We live in an age of unprecidented greed and insurance companies are without doubt one of the worst.
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  #23  
Old 30th January 2012
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Re: Car insurance for young driver

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Originally Posted by paullus View Post
In my professional experience though the most careless drivers these days are amongst the middle aged to old drivers who have had no training since passing their tests. Young drivers receive up to date training in modern vehicles on our busy roads. Many older drivers have just had to adapt to changing vehicle technology and traffic conditions. Some clearly adapt better than others though.
Interesting! Then why is my Fully comp premium for a 2 year old 185PS estate car only 250 for a 67yr old? I would imagine the insurance companies have professional experience in assessing aged related competence to drive based on the statistics currently available. It is incredibly hard for youngsters to get insurance and it is just as bad trying to get a job, signs of the times that unfortunately won't get better in the short term. I am just glad that both my kids are old enough to be out of this bracket and anyhow are able to pay their own way.

David
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  #24  
Old 30th January 2012
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Re: Car insurance for young driver

My car was hit by a lady driving a people carrier about a year ago. She blindly followed the car in front who had turned across my path at a traffic light junction. At first she was adamant she had right of way until her partner pointed out that this wasn't the case. I was driving my old car which has plenty of bodywork modifications (!) on it already and this contretemps only added one more. I was awarded 350 compensation by her insurance company and that was that, I thought. Oh no! When I came to renew my insurance the premium was hiked by several hundred pounds. I complained and was told that as a victim I was statistically more like to be at fault in a future incident! I have had one speeding ticket in the last 20 years...

My eldest daughter will be 16 this year so in a year and a bit she will be on the road - at least I should be grateful that female drivers are judged to be a lower risk than males...

Ian
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  #25  
Old 30th January 2012
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Re: Car insurance for young driver

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My eldest daughter will be 16 this year so in a year and a bit she will be on the road - at least I should be grateful that female drivers are judged to be a lower risk than males...

Ian

Don't forget that EU ruling I mentioned in an earlier reply to this thread. I am not sure what time-line has been set for its introduction but basically the EU has ruled that it is against EU Law for insurance companies to load Male premiums higher than that of females. But as I also said there is no way that the insurance companies will reduce the premiums for males inline with what they charge females what will happen is the following..... the female premiums will be increased to be inline with what they charge us males.
This way they will comply with the wording of the ruling and at the same time rake in even more money

I cannot see how much longer this can continue before the cost of motoring in this country becomes unaffordable for most of us, come to that "The whole cost of living". I am fast coming to the opinion that we "should have" let the banks etc go T**S - UP in 2008 , whilst Gordon Brown and others said that not bailing them out would have lead to financial meltdown it would have frightened the hell out of the surviving ones and maybe, just maybe put the brakes on the level of sheer arrogance of corporate greed being currently flaunted in the face of all us ordinary hard working folk.

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  #26  
Old 30th January 2012
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Re: Car insurance for young driver

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I cannot see how much longer this can continue before the cost of motoring in this country becomes unaffordable for most of us, come to that "The whole cost of living". I am fast coming to the opinion that we "should have" let the banks etc go T**S - UP in 2008 , whilst Gordon Brown and others said that not bailing them out would have lead to financial meltdown it would have frightened the hell out of the surviving ones and maybe, just maybe put the brakes on the level of sheer arrogance of corporate greed being currently flaunted in the face of all us ordinary hard working folk.
I could not agree more Simon
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  #27  
Old 30th January 2012
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Re: Car insurance for young driver

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Originally Posted by Simon Bee View Post
Don't forget that EU ruling I mentioned in an earlier reply to this thread. I am not sure what time-line has been set for its introduction but basically the EU has ruled that it is against EU Law for insurance companies to load Male premiums higher than that of females. But as I also said there is no way that the insurance companies will reduce the premiums for males inline with what they charge females what will happen is the following..... the female premiums will be increased to be inline with what they charge us males.
This way they will comply with the wording of the ruling and at the same time rake in even more money

I cannot see how much longer this can continue before the cost of motoring in this country becomes unaffordable for most of us, come to that "The whole cost of living". I am fast coming to the opinion that we "should have" let the banks etc go T**S - UP in 2008 , whilst Gordon Brown and others said that not bailing them out would have lead to financial meltdown it would have frightened the hell out of the surviving ones and maybe, just maybe put the brakes on the level of sheer arrogance of corporate greed being currently flaunted in the face of all us ordinary hard working folk.

Regards Simon
Yes, I had overlooked that! Well, if female drivers' premiums go up and male premiums don't come down, at least to start with, in theory insurance companies will find that there is some leeway to reduces premiums all round at some point in the future. I'm not saying this will happen through the goodness of their hearts! But as insurance is supposed to be very competitive then I would expect market forces to make the necessary adjustment over time. But then I am an optimist!

Ian
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  #28  
Old 30th January 2012
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Re: Car insurance for young driver

Without gettign too involved in the debate over corporate greed...

People still get sentenced to gaol for disqualified driving on a regular basis, 1-6 months is the norm ( arecent case saw 16 weeks for a second such offence)

No insurance is far easier to detect nowadays with ANPR and the police now have the power to sieze vehicles at the roadside under the UNIL scheme, it is expensive and a hassle to get them back.

Only those with no regard to the law or their place in society can afford the risk of uninsured driving.
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  #29  
Old 30th January 2012
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Re: Car insurance for young driver

Those with no regard for the law don't suffer as much as those who do because they drive untaxed unregistered wrecks, and don't have careers to blight. In fact they get training for their chosen career inside and come out mopre skilled at committing crime.

Sorry. In cynic mode this evening.
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  #30  
Old 30th January 2012
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Re: Car insurance for young driver

I'm terminally cynical but I wouldn't swap places with any of the uncaring, amoral, *****'s taht you refer to, that's not the way to a happy and fulfilled life
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