Olympus UK E-System User Group
Olympus UK E-System User Group

Join our unique resource for Olympus Four Thirds E-System DSLR and Pen and OM-D Micro Four Thirds photographers. Show your images via our free e-group photo gallery. Please read the e-group.uk.net forum terms and conditions before posting for the first time. Above all, welcome!


Go Back   Olympus UK E-System User Group > Cameras, lenses and system accessories > Camera conference > Micro Four Thirds > Olympus OM-D E-M1

Olympus OM-D E-M1 The first Micro Four Thirds camera that offers phase detect focusing so you can use Four Thirds DSLR lenses normally as well a Micro Four Thirds lenses.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #91  
Old 19th September 2013
Xenon Xenon is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Sussex
Posts: 110
Thanks: 109
Thanked 33 Times in 24 Posts
Likes: 38
Liked 11 Times in 9 Posts
Re: C-AF on M4/3 lenses

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetset95 View Post
Great, with a bit of luck the format at the London events this weekend will allow us to test it out a bit as well. I'm off to the image space event at Brick Lane tomorrow, so hopefully even if the BIF don't appear then the BMX bikers and street artist session will let us give the PDAF C-AF a go...
Should be a very interesting test scenario, and I look forward to the results!
Reply With Quote
  #92  
Old 19th September 2013
timmypreston's Avatar
timmypreston timmypreston is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: In the sticks
Posts: 1,673
Thanks: 148
Thanked 249 Times in 219 Posts
Likes: 40
Liked 260 Times in 121 Posts
Re: C-AF on M4/3 lenses

The most important factor of any camera regardless of how good/bad or indifferent it is is the person who is holding it.

A Formula One car is pretty much the pinnacle of the automotive industry. A very fast, slick and advanced piece of machinery. Remove the F1 driver and its going nowhere. Put in a person who can drive a car but has never driven an F1 car before then it might perform but nowhere near to the limits the car is capable of. Is that the cars fault?
__________________
Thanks
Tim

http://www.flickr.com/photos/33153464@N07/
Reply With Quote
  #93  
Old 19th September 2013
timmypreston's Avatar
timmypreston timmypreston is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: In the sticks
Posts: 1,673
Thanks: 148
Thanked 249 Times in 219 Posts
Likes: 40
Liked 260 Times in 121 Posts
Re: C-AF on M4/3 lenses

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian View Post
Getting one shot of a distant bird in flight is possible using an E-M5 and 75-300, but very difficult and demands a well-honed technique and a lot of skill and luck. But getting a sequence as the bird flies is nigh on impossible because the AF can't maintain a lock unless the subject is fairly large in the frame and can be tracked very accurately by the photographer.

CDAF can only gauge which way to focus, not by how much. PDAF can, so it can discriminate between subjects that are nearer and further and usually you will be wanting to photograph the subject that is nearer, so a good C-AF system will bias the focusing to the nearer subject and once it has locked it should not need to make wild distance adjustments if focus is temporarily lost. Unfortunately CDAF C-AF will usually lose it very easily.

Also, Micro Four Thirds lenses (apart from the very slow and noisy original Olympus ones) are optimised for focus speed, which is very important for CDAF, but which benefits PDAF too.

I acknowledge that we haven't yet heard from a seasoned BIF expert with time using an E-M1 but that will come and I am confident that the feedback will be positive compared to an E-5 and especially an E-M5. The Canon EOS 7D is an exception and seems to have been designed for BIF and few other cameras out of the Nikon D4/Canon 1D league can compare.

Ian
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenon View Post
Damian McGillicuddy has just posted the following video of some testing done at the Manx International Rally 2013, testing autofocus
OM D EM1 Auto Focus Test - YouTube
That is extremely interesting to see that the AF focus has been tested using a high shutter speed on the entry to a hairpin and the exit of a chicane. In neither of these situations would the car have been moving particularly quickly. Even on the daylight shots of the impreza it is on the entry to what appears to be a left hand bend.
__________________
Thanks
Tim

http://www.flickr.com/photos/33153464@N07/
Reply With Quote
  #94  
Old 19th September 2013
Jetset95 Jetset95 is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 303
Thanks: 10
Thanked 18 Times in 17 Posts
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Re: C-AF on M4/3 lenses

Quote:
Originally Posted by timmypreston View Post
The most important factor of any camera regardless of how good/bad or indifferent it is is the person who is holding it.

A Formula One car is pretty much the pinnacle of the automotive industry. A very fast, slick and advanced piece of machinery. Remove the F1 driver and its going nowhere. Put in a person who can drive a car but has never driven an F1 car before then it might perform but nowhere near to the limits the car is capable of. Is that the cars fault?
It's an interesting analogy but if your super high performance F1 car overheats or hits a rut in the road it can land you back in the garage and an early bath. Not so an E-M1 or a D4 methinks.

Seriously, of course it depends on how good a photographer you are, but I couldn't take half the photos with my old Kodak Instamatic that I can with my OM-D - again an extreme example but you need a camera capable of taking the photos in your hand before the skill allows you to press the shutter with the right combination of settings to realise you're vision.

My previous CSC body was a Panny G3 - nothing like the ability in low light that OM-D does, or the image stabilisation in the lenses versus the 5-axis in the OM-D body. My new camera allows me to take images that the old one simply would not if I didn't carry a flash and / or a tripod with me.
__________________
James

OM-D E-M5 and lots of other things to to bash into it in the bag (usually a Billingham Hadley Pro)
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Jetset95 For This Useful Post:
Chevvyf1 (20th September 2013)
  #95  
Old 19th September 2013
pdk42's Avatar
pdk42 pdk42 is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Leamington Spa
Posts: 5,710
Thanks: 370
Thanked 1,257 Times in 942 Posts
Likes: 150
Liked 6,006 Times in 1,955 Posts
Re: C-AF on M4/3 lenses

I'm not heavily into BIF, but I do aviation stuff from time to time. I've done a bit of BIF with a 40d I had some years ago. For example, this taken with a 100-400:



I know from this attempt that 80% of the shots were OOF and that technique counts for a lot. Having said that, the 40d wasn't great at AF tracking and I know that Canon and Nikon have worked hard on C-AF algorithms over many years to make their 'action' cameras as good as possible in this regard. To expect Oly to jump to this level in one hit is I think unrealistic.

However, this does bring me to an important point ... it's clear that AF tracking is as much to do with software as hardware and I'm really hoping that Oly keeps plugging away at improving the EM1 with firmware updates. The advances made by Fuji in AF on the XE1 in version 2 firmware were immense so it shows it can done. My fear is that Oly tend not to do long-term firmware upgrades though, leaving owners of older bodies to either buy the new gear or lump it with the old firmware (witness lack of an E-M5 upgrade to add persistent small focus points, assignable Mysets, Myset display on the EVF, focus peaking, ...).

I'm really tempted by the E-M1 and the potential to get competitive C-AF but like others I'm looking to see just how good it is is on m43 lenses first. I don't want to have to buy the E-M1mkii to get a system that really does match C/N systems.
__________________
Paul
E-M1ii, Pen-F and too many lenses
flickr
Portfolio Site
Instagram
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to pdk42 For This Useful Post:
Chevvyf1 (20th September 2013), Xenon (20th September 2013)
  #96  
Old 20th September 2013
Xenon Xenon is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Sussex
Posts: 110
Thanks: 109
Thanked 33 Times in 24 Posts
Likes: 38
Liked 11 Times in 9 Posts
Re: C-AF on M4/3 lenses

Quote:
Originally Posted by timmypreston View Post
That is extremely interesting to see that the AF focus has been tested using a high shutter speed on the entry to a hairpin and the exit of a chicane. In neither of these situations would the car have been moving particularly quickly. Even on the daylight shots of the impreza it is on the entry to what appears to be a left hand bend.
That is my conclusion too.
We still need to see some proper testing.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Xenon For This Useful Post:
Chevvyf1 (20th September 2013)
  #97  
Old 20th September 2013
Ian's Avatar
Ian Ian is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Hemel Hempstead, Hertfordshire, UK
Posts: 11,593
Thanks: 425
Thanked 2,531 Times in 1,274 Posts
Likes: 870
Liked 1,710 Times in 774 Posts
Re: C-AF on M4/3 lenses

Quote:
Originally Posted by pdk42 View Post
I'm not heavily into BIF, but I do aviation stuff from time to time. I've done a bit of BIF with a 40d I had some years ago. For example, this taken with a 100-400:



I know from this attempt that 80% of the shots were OOF and that technique counts for a lot. Having said that, the 40d wasn't great at AF tracking and I know that Canon and Nikon have worked hard on C-AF algorithms over many years to make their 'action' cameras as good as possible in this regard. To expect Oly to jump to this level in one hit is I think unrealistic.

However, this does bring me to an important point ... it's clear that AF tracking is as much to do with software as hardware and I'm really hoping that Oly keeps plugging away at improving the EM1 with firmware updates. The advances made by Fuji in AF on the XE1 in version 2 firmware were immense so it shows it can done. My fear is that Oly tend not to do long-term firmware upgrades though, leaving owners of older bodies to either buy the new gear or lump it with the old firmware (witness lack of an E-M5 upgrade to add persistent small focus points, assignable Mysets, Myset display on the EVF, focus peaking, ...).

I'm really tempted by the E-M1 and the potential to get competitive C-AF but like others I'm looking to see just how good it is is on m43 lenses first. I don't want to have to buy the E-M1mkii to get a system that really does match C/N systems.
Correct me if I am wrong, but the Fujifilm X-Pro 1 system started off with pretty unimpressive AF to start with and so it desperately needed improving. And there is no PDAF supprt. Fujifilm X-Pro is basically no relevant to this topic.

Ian
__________________
Founder and editor of:
Olympus UK E-System User Group (http://e-group.uk.net)
Four Thirds User (http://fourthirds-user.com)
Digital Photography Now (http://dpnow.com)
Olympus camera, lens, and accessory hire (http://e-group.uk.net/hire)

Twitter: www.twitter.com/ian_burley
Flickr: www.flickr.com/photos/dpnow/
Pinterest: www.pinterest.com/ianburley/
NEW: My personal BLOG ianburley.com

Last edited by Ian; 20th September 2013 at 10:11 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #98  
Old 20th September 2013
Zuiko's Avatar
Zuiko Zuiko is online now
Administrator
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Dunmow, Essex
Posts: 22,132
Thanks: 1,987
Thanked 3,164 Times in 2,472 Posts
Likes: 3,422
Liked 4,474 Times in 2,125 Posts
Re: C-AF on M4/3 lenses

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian View Post
Correct me if I am wrong, but the Fujifilm X-Pro 1 system started off with pretty unimpressive AF to start with and so it desperately needed improving. And there is no PDAF supprt. Fujifilm X-Pro is basically no relevant to this topic.

Ian
To be fair I think Paul was using Fuji as an example of what can be improved by firmware update and making the point that Olympus do not always appear to release firmware updates to enable possible improvements in existing models. On the other hand Olympus do have an excellent track record of including improvements pioneered in high end models in subsequent budget models.

Even at this relatively early stage I think it is plain that the E-M1 focus system is in a different class to all other current CSCs, the question is not "is it good" but "how good?"
__________________
John

"A hundredth of a second here, a hundredth of a second there even if you put them end to end, they still only add up to one, two, perhaps three seconds, snatched from eternity." ~ Robert Doisneau

Last edited by Ian; 20th September 2013 at 10:12 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #99  
Old 20th September 2013
Zuiko's Avatar
Zuiko Zuiko is online now
Administrator
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Dunmow, Essex
Posts: 22,132
Thanks: 1,987
Thanked 3,164 Times in 2,472 Posts
Likes: 3,422
Liked 4,474 Times in 2,125 Posts
Re: C-AF on M4/3 lenses

Quote:
Originally Posted by timmypreston View Post
That is extremely interesting to see that the AF focus has been tested using a high shutter speed on the entry to a hairpin and the exit of a chicane. In neither of these situations would the car have been moving particularly quickly. Even on the daylight shots of the impreza it is on the entry to what appears to be a left hand bend.
That is fair comment, but I still think the results are impressive compared to how my E-M5 would have handled it. I just get the feeling that once more the camera hasn't been tested to it's full potential. In reality there are so many scenarios we would like to see covered that it is inevitable that the full answer to the question "how good?" won't be available until the cameras have been in the hands of early adopters for a while. I guess that is the risk you take for the privilege of being one of the first to own a new camera, but from what I have seen so far if my circumstances allowed me to be part of this group I would gladly take the risk!
__________________
John

"A hundredth of a second here, a hundredth of a second there even if you put them end to end, they still only add up to one, two, perhaps three seconds, snatched from eternity." ~ Robert Doisneau
Reply With Quote
  #100  
Old 20th September 2013
ian p's Avatar
ian p ian p is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Munich
Posts: 492
Thanks: 19
Thanked 58 Times in 48 Posts
Likes: 4
Liked 148 Times in 93 Posts
Re: C-AF on M4/3 lenses

I didn't find the Damian McGillicuddy rally video useful. The background and foreground were in focus as well as the cars. The AF didnt have to be that precise. The only good thing was that they didnt go out and in focus again like the E-M5 does. (and like during the interview with Damian McGillicuddy) The took an easy task and dressed it up to look more than it was. Even as far as featuring art filters. BS all the way. I guess not aimed at people on this forum. (Just the poor gullible pros).
Reply With Quote
  #101  
Old 20th September 2013
StephenL's Avatar
StephenL StephenL is offline
Senior Pixelmonger
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Yorkshire Dales
Posts: 9,863
Thanks: 984
Thanked 1,126 Times in 921 Posts
Likes: 658
Liked 755 Times in 499 Posts
Re: C-AF on M4/3 lenses

Quote:
Originally Posted by ian p View Post
I didn't find the Damian McGillicuddy rally video useful. The background and foreground were in focus as well as the cars. The AF didnt have to be that precise.
I must say I wasn't impressed with this video. I used to take better with my Nikon FM in the '70s. Back then, all I did was pre-focus on a spot and shoot. Must have been OK - I sold dozens of the Manx Rally then!

But it's not managed to put me off the camera!
__________________
Stephen

A camera takes a picture. A photographer makes a picture

Fuji X system, + Leica and Bronica film

My Flickr site
Reply With Quote
  #102  
Old 20th September 2013
ian p's Avatar
ian p ian p is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Munich
Posts: 492
Thanks: 19
Thanked 58 Times in 48 Posts
Likes: 4
Liked 148 Times in 93 Posts
Re: C-AF on M4/3 lenses

No. I'd love to have an E-M1 too! Just not the obvious BS.
Reply With Quote
  #103  
Old 20th September 2013
Chevvyf1's Avatar
Chevvyf1 Chevvyf1 is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Devon, UK
Posts: 12,269
Thanks: 1,744
Thanked 1,281 Times in 1,112 Posts
Likes: 1,169
Liked 522 Times in 392 Posts
Re: C-AF on M4/3 lenses

Quote:
Originally Posted by ian p View Post
I didn't find the Damian McGillicuddy rally video useful. The background and foreground were in focus as well as the cars. The AF didnt have to be that precise. The only good thing was that they didnt go out and in focus again like the E-M5 does. (and like during the interview with Damian McGillicuddy) The took an easy task and dressed it up to look more than it was. Even as far as featuring art filters. BS all the way. I guess not aimed at people on this forum. (Just the poor gullible pros).

Spoken like an honest Gentleman

I agree
__________________
.
.
[I].
.
I Lurve Walking in our Glorious Countryside; Photography;
Riding Ducati Motorbikes; Reading & Cooking ! ...


http://www.flickr.com/photos/photomagicf1_chevvy/sets/

the ONE photo album
Reply With Quote
  #104  
Old 20th September 2013
Ian's Avatar
Ian Ian is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Hemel Hempstead, Hertfordshire, UK
Posts: 11,593
Thanks: 425
Thanked 2,531 Times in 1,274 Posts
Likes: 870
Liked 1,710 Times in 774 Posts
Re: C-AF on M4/3 lenses

Quote:
Originally Posted by ian p View Post
I didn't find the Damian McGillicuddy rally video useful. The background and foreground were in focus as well as the cars. The AF didnt have to be that precise. The only good thing was that they didnt go out and in focus again like the E-M5 does. (and like during the interview with Damian McGillicuddy) The took an easy task and dressed it up to look more than it was. Even as far as featuring art filters. BS all the way. I guess not aimed at people on this forum. (Just the poor gullible pros).
How do you know that the focus was reliable? I skipped through the video but we were only shown selected shots on the back of the camera.

Ian
__________________
Founder and editor of:
Olympus UK E-System User Group (http://e-group.uk.net)
Four Thirds User (http://fourthirds-user.com)
Digital Photography Now (http://dpnow.com)
Olympus camera, lens, and accessory hire (http://e-group.uk.net/hire)

Twitter: www.twitter.com/ian_burley
Flickr: www.flickr.com/photos/dpnow/
Pinterest: www.pinterest.com/ianburley/
NEW: My personal BLOG ianburley.com
Reply With Quote
  #105  
Old 20th September 2013
bilbo bilbo is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 1,079
Thanks: 255
Thanked 174 Times in 152 Posts
Likes: 148
Liked 205 Times in 110 Posts
Re: C-AF on M4/3 lenses

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian View Post
How do you know that the focus was reliable? I skipped through the video but we were only shown selected shots on the back of the camera.

Ian
I totally agree. I was waiting and waiting for them to show sequential shots but as you say we were just shown a few selected shots, and in some of them the point of focus was dubious anyway. I guess I'll just have to do my own tests when I get the camera...
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
For sale OMD and lenses dos niner For sale or wanted small ads 1 29th May 2013 07:18 PM
E-PM1 + 2 lenses 289.95 peak4 The lounge 0 9th September 2012 11:51 PM
hg lenses m-888-khan For sale or wanted small ads 53 15th May 2012 10:00 PM
2 different lenses. ringneck Foto Fair 6 14th September 2010 09:12 PM
Old Olympus Lenses (OM lenses?) and the E-Series Gazza_DJ Lens focus 23 11th February 2009 07:48 PM


All times are GMT. The time now is 06:04 PM.


The Write Technology Ltd, 2007-2019, All rights reservedAd Management plugin by RedTyger