Olympus UK E-System User Group
Olympus UK E-System User Group

Join our unique resource for Olympus Four Thirds E-System DSLR and Pen and OM-D Micro Four Thirds photographers. Show your images via our free e-group photo gallery. Please read the e-group.uk.net forum terms and conditions before posting for the first time. Above all, welcome!


Go Back   Olympus UK E-System User Group > Cameras, lenses and system accessories > Camera conference > Micro Four Thirds > Olympus OM-D E-M5

Olympus OM-D E-M5 The first Micro Four Thirds camera from Olympus with an integrated Electronic Viewfinder

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 6th September 2013
Sisi Sisi is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: London
Posts: 86
Thanks: 36
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Likes: 4
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Shooting RAW on OMD

Hi,
I have just noticed than when you set the OMD to RAW the camera lens is actually seeing a lot more of the image than one sees in the viewfinder as it shows you with the white lines the image. I'm currently using the 45mm lens so it looks like the image has been cropped therefor if you use jpeg?
Can someone tell me then how to use the maximum that the lens sees?

Hope this makes sense!
Thanks.

Sisi
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 6th September 2013
pvasc pvasc is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 684
Thanks: 90
Thanked 139 Times in 112 Posts
Likes: 61
Liked 102 Times in 60 Posts
Re: Shooting RAW on OMD

Sounds like the digital teleconverter is on. Don't know if you get white lines with RAW and using a different aspect ratio, but they are there with the D.T.C.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to pvasc For This Useful Post:
Sisi (6th September 2013)
  #3  
Old 6th September 2013
Anne Anne is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Hertfordshire
Posts: 407
Thanks: 108
Thanked 65 Times in 57 Posts
Likes: 91
Liked 39 Times in 26 Posts
Re: Shooting RAW on OMD

I get the white lines when I change the image aspect ratio from 4/3 to something else. I sometimes use the 16/9 ratio and I see those white lines and I generally shoot RAW.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 6th September 2013
Sisi Sisi is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: London
Posts: 86
Thanks: 36
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Likes: 4
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Re: Shooting RAW on OMD

Quote:
Originally Posted by pvasc View Post
Sounds like the digital teleconverter is on. Don't know if you get white lines with RAW and using a different aspect ratio, but they are there with the D.T.C.
Ah! Excellent! Thank you so much. The digital tele converter explains it! Could't think why the image was being cropped!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 6th September 2013
Ian's Avatar
Ian Ian is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Hemel Hempstead, Hertfordshire, UK
Posts: 11,593
Thanks: 425
Thanked 2,535 Times in 1,274 Posts
Likes: 870
Liked 1,715 Times in 774 Posts
Re: Shooting RAW on OMD

This is just the kind of thing this site was designed to achieve

Ian
__________________
Founder and editor of:
Olympus UK E-System User Group (http://e-group.uk.net)
Four Thirds User (http://fourthirds-user.com)
Digital Photography Now (http://dpnow.com)
Olympus camera, lens, and accessory hire (http://e-group.uk.net/hire)

Twitter: www.twitter.com/ian_burley
Flickr: www.flickr.com/photos/dpnow/
Pinterest: www.pinterest.com/ianburley/
NEW: My personal BLOG ianburley.com
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 7th September 2013
pvasc pvasc is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 684
Thanks: 90
Thanked 139 Times in 112 Posts
Likes: 61
Liked 102 Times in 60 Posts
Re: Shooting RAW on OMD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sisi View Post
Ah! Excellent! Thank you so much. The digital tele converter explains it! Could't think why the image was being cropped!
You are welcome.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 3rd October 2013
Naughty Nigel's Avatar
Naughty Nigel Naughty Nigel is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Land of the Prince Bishops
Posts: 9,671
Thanks: 389
Thanked 552 Times in 467 Posts
Likes: 3,362
Liked 2,324 Times in 1,531 Posts
Re: Shooting RAW on OMD

May I ask two further questions about shooting raw with the EM-5?

Firstly, does the noise filter work on raw files as well as Jpeg's, or only on Jpeg's?

(I prefer to work from raw files, but jpeg's are always handy, and I can Dropbox them home when I'm abroad, which I cannot do with 32 GB of raw files!)

Secondly, there seem to be numerous options for saving images to raw files and Jpeg's simultaneously, but none of the documentation that I have seems to fully explain what these options are.

Is there any more detailed information on these options anywhere?
__________________
---------------

Naughty Nigel


Difficult is worth doing
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 3rd October 2013
Zuiko's Avatar
Zuiko Zuiko is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Dunmow, Essex
Posts: 22,134
Thanks: 1,987
Thanked 3,165 Times in 2,473 Posts
Likes: 3,424
Liked 4,474 Times in 2,125 Posts
Re: Shooting RAW on OMD

The noise filter does not apply to raw files, only JPEG, but I believe it can be applied to the raw file at development stage if you are using Olympus Viewer 3 software.

The various JPEG options recorded simultaneously with raw relate to resolution and compression. For example, LSF = Large Super Fine which uses the full number of pixels with the least compression. LN is Large Normal, still with the maximum pixels but compressed more to achieve a smaller file size. MN (Medium Normal) and SN (Small Normal) respectively record progessively fewer pixels and are handy, say, for quickly uploading to a website. Raw files, of course, always use the maximum number of pixels and are uncompressed, at least in theory.
__________________
John

"A hundredth of a second here, a hundredth of a second there even if you put them end to end, they still only add up to one, two, perhaps three seconds, snatched from eternity." ~ Robert Doisneau
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Zuiko For This Useful Post:
Naughty Nigel (4th October 2013)
  #9  
Old 4th October 2013
Naughty Nigel's Avatar
Naughty Nigel Naughty Nigel is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Land of the Prince Bishops
Posts: 9,671
Thanks: 389
Thanked 552 Times in 467 Posts
Likes: 3,362
Liked 2,324 Times in 1,531 Posts
Re: Shooting RAW on OMD

Thank you John for your explanation. There are so any options in the EM-5's menu it is difficult to know where to start!

The EM-5's raw files are compressed, but the compression is lossless; unlike Jpeg compression, which loses some detail, depending on the compression chosen.

As far as I know, the E1 was the only Olympus DSLR not to compress its raw files. The E500 which followed used file compression, which is just as well given how slow the E500's USB connection was!

As a point of interest, we have found that the E500's data cable fits the OM-D EM-5, which is handy to know as it doesn't use a standard Mini or Micro USB connection. Thankfully though, the EM-5's data transfer rates are much faster than the E500's.

I haven't tried the Olympus Viewer 3 software (I gave up after buying Viewer 1, which was painfully slow), so I do everything in Photoshop. Maybe I should give it a try. Presumably the noise reduction in Viewer 3 is only available if converting raw files to another format?
__________________
---------------

Naughty Nigel


Difficult is worth doing
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 4th October 2013
Ian's Avatar
Ian Ian is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Hemel Hempstead, Hertfordshire, UK
Posts: 11,593
Thanks: 425
Thanked 2,535 Times in 1,274 Posts
Likes: 870
Liked 1,715 Times in 774 Posts
Re: Shooting RAW on OMD

Hi Nigel - a RAW file is just that; it's RAW data off the sensor. It has no true colour or tone and by itself can't actually be displayed as a picture.

When you view a RAW image using RAW conversion software, that software has to make some assumptions about the RAW data and convert accordingly. If you open a RAW file in, say, 5 different programs, it will look slightly different in each one because each will have different default values for colour, tone (brightness and contrast), sharpness, noise management, etc.

So many times I see people who think that by using a RAW file opened in, say, Photoshop, that this will be the best possible image quality but to actually achieve that you need to make adjustments yourself and this does require some skill.

If you don't want or feel you have the ability to do that then use in-camera JPEG images. These will often be better than a RAW simply opened without adjustments in a RAW conversion program.

Olympus Viewer 3 is a RAW converter with a difference as it is completely dedicated to Olympus cameras and their RAW format files in particular. Viewer understands the data in the RAW file that relates to camera settings and so it will, by default, create a view that is equivalent to the in-camera JPEG file you would have got from the camera. That includes the noise filter setting.

You are right; adjustment settings, including the noise filter, are only made 'real' when you create a new image file from the RAW file (the RAW file never changes) - and that could be a JPEG or a number of other image file formats.

Ian
__________________
Founder and editor of:
Olympus UK E-System User Group (http://e-group.uk.net)
Four Thirds User (http://fourthirds-user.com)
Digital Photography Now (http://dpnow.com)
Olympus camera, lens, and accessory hire (http://e-group.uk.net/hire)

Twitter: www.twitter.com/ian_burley
Flickr: www.flickr.com/photos/dpnow/
Pinterest: www.pinterest.com/ianburley/
NEW: My personal BLOG ianburley.com
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Ian For This Useful Post:
Naughty Nigel (4th October 2013)
  #11  
Old 4th October 2013
Naughty Nigel's Avatar
Naughty Nigel Naughty Nigel is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Land of the Prince Bishops
Posts: 9,671
Thanks: 389
Thanked 552 Times in 467 Posts
Likes: 3,362
Liked 2,324 Times in 1,531 Posts
Re: Shooting RAW on OMD

Thank you Ian. I have been happily using raw files from my E1, E5 and Canon G-series camera for many years, and would agree with what you say.

However, my puzzlement was with the sheer number of options in my OM-D EM-5's menu, and also my doubts about whether noise reduction was applied to raw images. I know that noise subtraction can be applied (if selected) to raw images when using high ISO speeds, but I was unsure about general noise reduction.

Anyhow, I have installed Viewer 3 and will give that a try.
__________________
---------------

Naughty Nigel


Difficult is worth doing
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 4th October 2013
Ian's Avatar
Ian Ian is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Hemel Hempstead, Hertfordshire, UK
Posts: 11,593
Thanks: 425
Thanked 2,535 Times in 1,274 Posts
Likes: 870
Liked 1,715 Times in 774 Posts
Re: Shooting RAW on OMD

Olympus differentiate between 'noise filter' and 'noise reduction' - the former is to reduce noise grain using normal exposures and the latter is a dark frame subtraction process to remove hot pixels that become visible during long exposures.

I am not aware that any noise management is applied to RAW files by Olympus. Some camera manufacturers like Sony do offer this as an option with some of their cameras.

Ian
__________________
Founder and editor of:
Olympus UK E-System User Group (http://e-group.uk.net)
Four Thirds User (http://fourthirds-user.com)
Digital Photography Now (http://dpnow.com)
Olympus camera, lens, and accessory hire (http://e-group.uk.net/hire)

Twitter: www.twitter.com/ian_burley
Flickr: www.flickr.com/photos/dpnow/
Pinterest: www.pinterest.com/ianburley/
NEW: My personal BLOG ianburley.com
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 4th October 2013
Naughty Nigel's Avatar
Naughty Nigel Naughty Nigel is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Land of the Prince Bishops
Posts: 9,671
Thanks: 389
Thanked 552 Times in 467 Posts
Likes: 3,362
Liked 2,324 Times in 1,531 Posts
Re: Shooting RAW on OMD

I am fairly sure that noise subtraction system (using a dark frame) works on my E1, and I think the E5 at high ISO speeds.

Otherwise why would the noise subtraction filter be seen working when the camera is set only to save to raw files?

I think I need to do some experimentation!
__________________
---------------

Naughty Nigel


Difficult is worth doing
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 4th October 2013
photo_owl photo_owl is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Kent
Posts: 1,423
Thanks: 37
Thanked 129 Times in 113 Posts
Likes: 55
Liked 53 Times in 42 Posts
Re: Shooting RAW on OMD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian View Post
Olympus differentiate between 'noise filter' and 'noise reduction' - the former is to reduce noise grain using normal exposures and the latter is a dark frame subtraction process to remove hot pixels that become visible during long exposures.

I am not aware that any noise management is applied to RAW files by Olympus.

Ian
surely the 'noise reduction' is noise management, and is applied when creating the RAW files?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Naughty Nigel View Post
As far as I know, the E1 was the only Olympus DSLR not to compress its raw files.
E400 also
__________________
E, Pen and OM-D bodies
43 m43 and legacy glass
loads of flashes and accessories from all the systems
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 4th October 2013
photo_owl photo_owl is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Kent
Posts: 1,423
Thanks: 37
Thanked 129 Times in 113 Posts
Likes: 55
Liked 53 Times in 42 Posts
Re: Shooting RAW on OMD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Naughty Nigel View Post
I am fairly sure that noise subtraction system (using a dark frame) works on my E1, and I think the E5 at high ISO speeds.

Otherwise why would the noise subtraction filter be seen working when the camera is set only to save to raw files?

I think I need to do some experimentation!
noise reduction via dark frame subtraction is a function of shutter duration not ISO and does, as I suggested in my post above, apply to RAW files (which logicaly it should because it's removing sensor data rather than image data

noise filtration is progressive in terms of ISO settings and deals with image data when rendering an image from a RAW file (either in camera or in an image manipulation/viewing application)
__________________
E, Pen and OM-D bodies
43 m43 and legacy glass
loads of flashes and accessories from all the systems
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Tethered shooting. Jim Ford Software 13 17th April 2012 09:17 AM
Was shooting the rose! Phill D Foto Fair 0 16th August 2011 09:39 PM
A different kind of shooting francois The lounge 4 5th June 2011 11:02 AM
Carbide shooting tomke Foto Fair 14 15th January 2011 08:31 AM
Who's Shooting Who? ndl0071 Foto Fair 3 8th May 2010 07:37 AM


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:54 AM.


The Write Technology Ltd, 2007-2019, All rights reservedAd Management plugin by RedTyger