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Software Discuss Olympus Master, Studio and Viewer software applications as well as third party programs like Adobe Photoshop, Lightroom, Apple Aperture, and others.

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  #16  
Old 19th October 2017
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Re: Lightroom as we know it is now Lightroom Classic CC

DxO Optics Pro is more of an accessory to Lightroom rather than a replacement in my view.

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  #17  
Old 20th October 2017
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Re: Lightroom as we know it is now Lightroom Classic CC

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Originally Posted by pdk42 View Post
Well, it seems it might be the end of the road for me with LR... but for stupid compatibility issues.

I'm trying to upgrade my LR to the new "Classic CC" version but it's not being listed as an update in the Creative Cloud desktop app. I've been through the steps described here:

https://helpx.adobe.com/creative-clo...available.html

but none work.

However, I did look at the system requirements and it seems that on Windows you need Windows 10 (64-bit) Version 1511 or later. The laptop I use is maintained by my company's IT dept and it seems it's running Version 1507. What's worse, my own desktop PC is running Windows 7.

I have no control of what our corporate IT guys do and I hate Win 10. Win 7 is such a more aesthetic and smoother experience IMHO.

So, it seems that I'm locked out of LR upgrades from now on.... sigh.

Time to check out DxO.
Hi Paul, just before you give up; I run Win7 on my desktop and LR Classic has loaded without a hitch. There must be a way around this?
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  #18  
Old 20th October 2017
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Re: Lightroom as we know it is now Lightroom Classic CC

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Originally Posted by IainMacD View Post
Hi Paul, just before you give up; I run Win7 on my desktop and LR Classic has loaded without a hitch. There must be a way around this?
Yea, I'm beginning to think this too. My desktop shows Classic as being available for download, but my laptop stubbornly refuses to show anything. I'm just uninstalling all Adobe stuff on the laptop and will start again. Why does it all have to be so complicated....
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Old 20th October 2017
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Re: Lightroom as we know it is now Lightroom Classic CC

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Originally Posted by pdk42 View Post
Well, it seems it might be the end of the road for me with LR... but for stupid compatibility issues.

my own desktop PC is running Windows 7.

I have no control of what our corporate IT guys do and I hate Win 10. Win 7 is such a more aesthetic and smoother experience IMHO.

So, it seems that I'm locked out of LR upgrades from now on.... sigh.

Time to check out DxO.
I'm in a similar boat running windows 7, I tried updating to the latest LR release around 6-9 months ago however the cloud kept corrupting the software. It tirned out that I was missing an essential windows update, which was no longer available. Adobe remoted into my computer and reverted me to an older version. In light of your post it would seem Im using LR on borrowed time.

I take it the previous LR standalone on Amazon would allow me hassle free use in the future whilst keeping win 7.
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Old 20th October 2017
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Re: Lightroom as we know it is now Lightroom Classic CC

I've updated to Classic LR and all is well.

The process was painless, in response to Paul's unfortunate problems, but it should be noted that I replaced my PC a few months ago with a home specced and built machine designed for LR and PS. High end CPU, 16GB RAM and a good graphics card. Windows 10 of course as I rate that highly being fast, stable and reasonably configurable.

As an ex software developer/support guy I know that you simply cannot continue to support older OS as the costs become prohibitive. It would be great to do so but the complexity of coding and, even worse, testing becomes a huge overhead and a pure cost. Sad but true. So you have to drop OS versions perhaps two iterations back. The issue of 64/32 bit is an added complexity with performance in particular often a major headache.

Performance of the "Classic" version is a significant and welcome improvement with imports and preview building, in particular, both faster and running in parallel. The latter I suspect will need a decent machine to get the full benefit.

So if you have the OS and hardware and I would highly recommend updating.

As to the "CC" version, for me I see no point whatsoever as I am very unlikely to want that highly mobile ability. I gather it is also very light in terms of functionality ( no printing, side by side comparison, limited exports and a lot more besides ). The cloud storage is very expensive at $10/month for the first 1TB. As I have 2TB plus, assuming's $10 for the second TB, that's' $20 or $30/month which is outrageous. It also relies on you always having good internet speeds available which if you are travelling is far from certain. So for me I see no advantage at all and only disadvantages.

For the future I share Paul's apprehension regarding the Classic version. I hope I'm wrong on that one because I like the cataloguing functionality a lot with collections, smart collections etc. and the whole workflow with PS. Unlike some I find it works very well for me.

Only my personal view of course but for me very positive with the caveat regarding Adobe's future commitment to own machine file based solutions. I'm sure some bugs will surface but one of the big advantages of subscription based software is that updates tend to be reasonably swift and easy.

Hec
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  #21  
Old 20th October 2017
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Re: Lightroom as we know it is now Lightroom Classic CC

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Originally Posted by timboo View Post
I take it the previous LR standalone on Amazon would allow me hassle free use in the future whilst keeping win 7.
Tim,
LR 6 standalone will continue to work as usual - but if you get a new model of camera it's RAW files won't be supported.
e.g. Support for the E-M10 MkIII only arrives with the release of ACR 10 - which won't be incorporated into LR6.

If you use the Help -> Updates ... menu from LR6 standalone (and you are logged in with your Adobe ID) the option to install LR Classic CC is available. However, if you click on this, once the download is complete all you can do with it is start a 30 day trial.
If you choose to try LR Classic CC be sure to click on the 'Advance Options' and prevent the install from removing your existing version of LR
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  #22  
Old 20th October 2017
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Re: Lightroom as we know it is now Lightroom Classic CC

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy Hec View Post
I've updated to Classic LR and all is well.

The process was painless, in response to Paul's unfortunate problems, but it should be noted that I replaced my PC a few months ago with a home specced and built machine designed for LR and PS. High end CPU, 16GB RAM and a good graphics card. Windows 10 of course as I rate that highly being fast, stable and reasonably configurable.

As an ex software developer/support guy I know that you simply cannot continue to support older OS as the costs become prohibitive. It would be great to do so but the complexity of coding and, even worse, testing becomes a huge overhead and a pure cost. Sad but true. So you have to drop OS versions perhaps two iterations back. The issue of 64/32 bit is an added complexity with performance in particular often a major headache.

Performance of the "Classic" version is a significant and welcome improvement with imports and preview building, in particular, both faster and running in parallel. The latter I suspect will need a decent machine to get the full benefit.

So if you have the OS and hardware and I would highly recommend updating.

As to the "CC" version, for me I see no point whatsoever as I am very unlikely to want that highly mobile ability. I gather it is also very light in terms of functionality ( no printing, side by side comparison, limited exports and a lot more besides ). The cloud storage is very expensive at $10/month for the first 1TB. As I have 2TB plus, assuming's $10 for the second TB, that's' $20 or $30/month which is outrageous. It also relies on you always having good internet speeds available which if you are travelling is far from certain. So for me I see no advantage at all and only disadvantages.

For the future I share Paul's apprehension regarding the Classic version. I hope I'm wrong on that one because I like the cataloguing functionality a lot with collections, smart collections etc. and the whole workflow with PS. Unlike some I find it works very well for me.

Only my personal view of course but for me very positive with the caveat regarding Adobe's future commitment to own machine file based solutions. I'm sure some bugs will surface but one of the big advantages of subscription based software is that updates tend to be reasonably swift and easy.

Hec
Well, it seems that at least on Windows 10 the new version won't install unless the OS is reasonably up-to-date on patches. It needs Win 10 version 1511 or later. Our IT department are still running on version 1507 and LR basically refuses to install on it. My Windows 7 desktop is up-to-date with patches so I guess that's why it's offering me the upgrade on that. It's all very annoying since I'm not going to upgrade one machine and have a different version on another - that'll cause issues moving files I'm sure. And in any case, the performance improvements are really what I want and it's on the laptop where these are needed.
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  #23  
Old 20th October 2017
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Re: Lightroom as we know it is now Lightroom Classic CC

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Originally Posted by Gwyver View Post
Tim,
LR 6 standalone will continue to work as usual - but if you get a new model of camera it's RAW files won't be supported.
e.g. Support for the E-M10 MkIII only arrives with the release of ACR 10 - which won't be incorporated into LR6.

If you use the Help -> Updates ... menu from LR6 standalone (and you are logged in with your Adobe ID) the option to install LR Classic CC is available. However, if you click on this, once the download is complete all you can do with it is start a 30 day trial.
If you choose to try LR Classic CC be sure to click on the 'Advance Options' and prevent the install from removing your existing version of LR
I'm running a standalone copy of LR that was last updated sometime previous and currently v6.9. I believe the latest version of standalone LR before Adobe started messing is 6.13. Is it still possible to update to the latest 6.9 -> 6.13 or will the update feature try to force me towards LR Classic CC?
I have no intention of upgrading my digital cameras, so the old school standalone is fine for me.
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  #24  
Old 21st October 2017
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Re: Lightroom as we know it is now Lightroom Classic CC

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I'm running a standalone copy of LR that was last updated sometime previous and currently v6.9. I believe the latest version of standalone LR before Adobe started messing is 6.13. Is it still possible to update to the latest 6.9 -> 6.13 or will the update feature try to force me towards LR Classic CC?
I have no intention of upgrading my digital cameras, so the old school standalone is fine for me.
Steve,
I thought the latest version of LR standalone is 6.12 - which was released in July '17. There was a later bug fix for ACR (6.12.1) to handle the Nikon D850 but I don't think this has been baked into a later version of LR6 yet - though I've read some reports of an LR6 update due towards the end of this month. Maybe this will be 6.13 ?
Currently, when I open the 'Installed Apps' tab in Adobe Creative Cloud (i.e. the standalone LR6 updater) it provides options for
  1. Lightroom CC (2015) as usual (though no update is available)
  2. Lightroom Classic CC (with the option to download)
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  #25  
Old 21st October 2017
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Re: Lightroom as we know it is now Lightroom Classic CC

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Originally Posted by Gwyver View Post
Steve,
I thought the latest version of LR standalone is 6.12 - which was released in July '17. There was a later bug fix for ACR (6.12.1) to handle the Nikon D850 but I don't think this has been baked into a later version of LR6 yet - though I've read some reports of an LR6 update due towards the end of this month. Maybe this will be 6.13 ?
Currently, when I open the 'Installed Apps' tab in Adobe Creative Cloud (i.e. the standalone LR6 updater) it provides options for
  1. Lightroom CC (2015) as usual (though no update is available)
  2. Lightroom Classic CC (with the option to download)
Thanks Chris - I'm probably getting the release numbers mixed up. The main point I was trying to establish is whether I'm safe attempting any update, in the sense I will not be sent down the path towards subscription.
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  #26  
Old 21st October 2017
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Re: Lightroom as we know it is now Lightroom Classic CC

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gwyver View Post
Tim,
LR 6 standalone will continue to work as usual - but if you get a new model of camera it's RAW files won't be supported.
e.g. Support for the E-M10 MkIII only arrives with the release of ACR 10 - which won't be incorporated into LR6.

If you use the Help -> Updates ... menu from LR6 standalone (and you are logged in with your Adobe ID) the option to install LR Classic CC is available. However, if you click on this, once the download is complete all you can do with it is start a 30 day trial.
If you choose to try LR Classic CC be sure to click on the 'Advance Options' and prevent the install from removing your existing version of LR
Thanks I'm using an EM1 MK1 so no issue RAW files whilst I keep it.


Looks like I maybe onto something here having found a very useful link to resolve windows 7 update issues, mine kept getting stuck in limbo freezing on 'Searching for updates'

https://www.cclonline.com/article/17...indows-Update/

Following the success of updating windows 7, I now have Lightroom classic CC installed and working perfectly with Windows 7, and Photoshop also works fine. SUCCESS

All being well I will get even longer out of my windows 7 system now. I couldn't bare the thought of updating to windows 10, I share your views Paul with regards to those tiles. Not to mention how difficult it is to navigate around trying to find settings etc...
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  #27  
Old 21st October 2017
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Re: Lightroom as we know it is now Lightroom Classic CC

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Originally Posted by pdk42 View Post
Well, it seems that at least on Windows 10 the new version won't install unless the OS is reasonably up-to-date on patches. It needs Win 10 version 1511 or later. Our IT department are still running on version 1507 and LR basically refuses to install on it. My Windows 7 desktop is up-to-date with patches so I guess that's why it's offering me the upgrade on that. It's all very annoying since I'm not going to upgrade one machine and have a different version on another - that'll cause issues moving files I'm sure. And in any case, the performance improvements are really what I want and it's on the laptop where these are needed.
IT departments are typically very cautious about updating machines due to traditional worries about bugs in new versions. This harks back to the days when new Windows versions were habitually buggy, in some cases downright flaky, and the accepted wisdom was to wait for a while, sometimes months or even more than a year, to allow said bugs to be fixed.

Whilst bugs, inevitably, can and will still be there it is much, much less of a problem than they used to be. Microsoft have upped their game on this by a huge margin. My W10 machine I use for all post processing is always set to update automatically and is consequently up to date at all times. I have had no problems whatsoever with that strategy.

As I said in my previous post I hold W10 in some regard. For me it is the best Windows version by far being fast and stable in particular. I have been using windows for decades and remember the fun and frolics getting almost anything to run in 3.1, especially games which often had to be run after rebooting into DOS based memory management software. Very much the bad old days which we have happily left behind.

W7 was good but IMO W10 is better so my personal recommendation would be to bite the bullet and upgrade notwithstanding driver issues. The latter, in my experience, is predominately caused by some hardware/software companies not producing updates when W10 came in. Our "kitchen machine" is a Sony all in one device and they have not produced a new driver for the inbuilt graphics card so it is stuck at W7. Why Sony made that decision I do not know as the machine was not that old at the time and I doubt such an update would have been a big issue. At some point, probably sooner rather than later, I will have to change the machine completely so I sense another PC building project looming as I will not be making the mistake of using Sony again or having an all in one device which is very difficult to upgrade.


Hec
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  #28  
Old 21st October 2017
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Re: Lightroom as we know it is now Lightroom Classic CC

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Originally Posted by Grumpy Hec View Post
IT departments are typically very cautious about updating machines due to traditional worries about bugs in new versions. This harks back to the days when new Windows versions were habitually buggy, in some cases downright flaky, and the accepted wisdom was to wait for a while, sometimes months or even more than a year, to allow said bugs to be fixed.

Whilst bugs, inevitably, can and will still be there it is much, much less of a problem than they used to be. Microsoft have upped their game on this by a huge margin. My W10 machine I use for all post processing is always set to update automatically and is consequently up to date at all times. I have had no problems whatsoever with that strategy.

As I said in my previous post I hold W10 in some regard. For me it is the best Windows version by far being fast and stable in particular. I have been using windows for decades and remember the fun and frolics getting almost anything to run in 3.1, especially games which often had to be run after rebooting into DOS based memory management software. Very much the bad old days which we have happily left behind.

W7 was good but IMO W10 is better so my personal recommendation would be to bite the bullet and upgrade notwithstanding driver issues. The latter, in my experience, is predominately caused by some hardware/software companies not producing updates when W10 came in. Our "kitchen machine" is a Sony all in one device and they have not produced a new driver for the inbuilt graphics card so it is stuck at W7. Why Sony made that decision I do not know as the machine was not that old at the time and I doubt such an update would have been a big issue. At some point, probably sooner rather than later, I will have to change the machine completely so I sense another PC building project looming as I will not be making the mistake of using Sony again or having an all in one device which is very difficult to upgrade.


Hec
My issue with W10 isn't its stability or performance - it's aesthetics (and perhaps the plethora of snooping strategies that are all turned on by default).

My particular dislike is the "flat" appearance of W10 - but what's unforgivable for a company the size of Microsoft is that the new look isn't even consistent across all the OS's screens. One minute you're into the new "metro" style apps (full-screen, flat (no 3D look), no scroll bars, no re-sizing etc) and the next you have an old style app with window decorations, scroll-bars, re-size etc. It's not even the esoteric screens that have missed the update either - just compare the settings app with control panel. Settings is new, control panel old. It's like Monty Python's Holy Grail where the film stops at the point they run out of money!

The thing I hate the most with W10 though is the new tiles interface on the main menu. Thankfully there is a 3rd party add-on called "Classic Shell" which gives a W7-style menu system, and the OS is all the better for it.

The problem with W10 of course is that Microsoft decided that they could do one OS for tablets and desktop - IMHO that's not a good decision.

As to auto-updates - I think in general it's OK so long as the updates are properly tested and can be downloaded and applied without major impact on the user. A good example of a complete fail on this is another Sony story - their Playstation OS will check for updates on start up and will refuse to do anything until the update is downloaded and applied. On a slow internet connection that can take 20mins or more. So, just when you had a quick half hour to watch the Top Gear episode on the BBC iPlayer, you're screwed. Thanks Sony!
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  #29  
Old 21st October 2017
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Re: Lightroom as we know it is now Lightroom Classic CC

Interesting Paul.

Aesthetics are a personal thing and I find myself unable to get so moved by them to cause me not to opt for performance & stability. However I do agree it is a little flat but to be honest my set up is even flatter than that I think you are describing.

On opening all I have is wallpaper, one of my images, with no shortcuts other than of course the recycle bin which has always annoyed me, and the task bar at the bottom. The latter has all the programmes I use on a regular basis such as LR, PS, Word, Excel, Outlook, explorer, Edge, calculator, password storage system. Instantly available but not at all intrusive.

The rest are in the start menu, arranged alphabetically, accessed via the windows button should I need them. No tiles are visible until I open the start menu and then only about 6 things I want to get at easily but which aren't on the task bar as they are needed less often. So you don't need to be bombarded with tiles at all.

On my windows tablet it is set up differently to use tiles as that is basically what they are designed for. That works well in that scenario.

So the same OS is configured differently depending on the device and the method/type of use. It works for me.


I do agree about settings v control panel. I tend to access control panel mostly, via the start menu, as that is what I know but settings are good for some things albeit harder to get to the more detailed stuff at times.

Auto updates. Yes they should not have an impact on the user. I have set the time to allow them when I am less likely to be using the machine or alternatively I can allow the update on close down or when it happens to suit me. I have never been forced to do an update when I don't want to. As I say I have not had any problems post updates on W10.

Hec
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Old 21st October 2017
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Re: Lightroom as we know it is now Lightroom Classic CC

Just mucking about with Lightroom CC Classic on the Mac, at the moment. It's a big improvement over old Lightroom CC. I don't think Adobe would have but this kind of money and effort into it if they had any near term plans to sunset the product.
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