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View Poll Results: Are you getting fed up with Brexit and should we go back to discussing other things ?
YES - Close the thread 21 47.73%
NO - Keep the debate going on for eternity 23 52.27%
Voters: 44. You may not vote on this poll

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  #2146  
Old 20th November 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

The most wonderful Carole Cadwalladr has apparently corrected her story today. Guess its won't be on any front pages though.

Last week she wrote of various spuriously connected groups in Westminster of colluding to smear ‘whistleblower’ Shahmir Sanni. These included BrexitCentral and the Institute of Economic Affairs.

But with her tail between her legs Carole has now made some pretty big corrections, undermining the entire premise of her article. She has admitted that neither BrexitCentral or the Institute of Economic Affairs were involved in her wild conspiracies and are in fact separate organisations.
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  #2147  
Old 20th November 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

Oh dear... what can the matter be?

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknew...id=mailsignout

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknew...id=mailsignout
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  #2148  
Old 20th November 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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Originally Posted by Jim Ford View Post
Yes but he's not vigorously promoting a Hard Brexit like Aaron Bank and J.R-M. But then to paraphrase Mandy Rice Davis, 'They would, wouldn't they!'. Jim

Could it be, that as a multi-millionaire, he's been far too busy travelling the world at tax-payers expense, mixing M. E. Envoy business ( with - under - scrutiny pleasure? Since that job has recently gone down the tubes, he's now hoping to jump onto the EU gravy train which could help explain why he wants us in.

Yes, I know, I know, it's too easy to jump on an individual. The basic problem, is that they are all doing it under one guise or another. As we don't want to tar them all with the same brush, it makes sense to pick out those that poke their heads above the parapets professing answers to problems they created in the first place. For example, Bankrupt Britain, then complain about austerity. Glass houses spring to mind.
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  #2149  
Old 20th November 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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I'm amazed ! I assumed a person of your status would have had African servants to do such menial tasks as making custard.

Jax
And what status would that be?
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  #2150  
Old 20th November 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

Opening Paragraphs of todays speech by the French Finance Minister-


“Allow me to say straightaway to our German friends that it is time for Germany to respond to Emmanuel Macron’s proposals and come to a decision about Europe’s future.

EU as a “peaceful empire” / European sovereignty

Why? Because it’s a key issue. There is only one issue today for future generations: building European sovereignty between Donald Trump’s United States and Xi Jinping’s China. In my view this is the only real issue. Yet to take up this challenge, the only way forward is an agreement between France and Germany; everything else is illusions and projects which will be short-lived. Only an agreement between France and Germany can allow us to build this European sovereignty, which is our challenge, the challenge of our generation, the challenge of the next 25 years.

Europe has a choice: nationalism or sovereignty. France chooses sovereignty, and I’ll go even further: I think Europe has to become an empire again; a “peaceful empire” in the words of Tocqueville, but an empire nonetheless. Between the American empire and the Chinese empire, Europe must assert itself as a peaceful empire.

An empire has allies – the United States. An empire has rivals – China. An empire has enemies and Europe has an enemy which no one names but which kills on our territory and continues to pose a major threat to all our nations: this enemy is radical Islamism.

An empire has economic interests; an empire has ambitions. Our ambition must be to assert ourselves as the empire of human rights, the empire of the rule of law, the empire of sustainable growth, capable of combating global warming.

Finally, an empire has a culture, because there’s a European culture which is the sum of this huge diversity of national cultures which make up the richness of the European continent in the deepest, most powerful and firmly rooted way, centuries and centuries of intertwined, interwoven national cultures, which have spread geographically down the centuries and allow us to be what we are.

This is my personal firm belief: Europe has got to assert itself as a peaceful empire in the next 25 years.

Beyond these great ambitions, it is essential to build this peaceful empire and European sovereignty brick by brick.

To be able to do this, every nation must recover its credibility. I won’t spend too long on this: I’m not here to set out the government’s economic policy. But my deepest belief is that by recovering its economic credibility, France also recovers its political credibility. Nations which run up deficits, which have no answer to growth problems other than more public spending and are unable to innovate or invest are discredited nations. Nations which restore their public finances and invest in the future are nations which are listened to and respected.

And this is exactly what the President, Prime Minister and I want to do.

Building this European sovereignty then means strengthening our economic power. I think this is the first brick we’ve got to make rapid progress on. We should be looking at weeks and months much more than years.”



So Remainers is this what you want stay in - The Empire ?
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  #2151  
Old 20th November 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

I thought it was the Leavers who wanted their Empire back? . Whatever, faced with the likes of China and Trump I'd much rather be staying with our EU friends than trying to go it alone. That's always assuming we have any friends left in the EU after this mess has run its course.
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  #2152  
Old 20th November 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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I thought it was the Leavers who wanted their Empire back? . Whatever, faced with the likes of China and Trump I'd much rather be staying with our EU friends than trying to go it alone. That's always assuming we have any friends left in the EU after this mess has run its course.
So you don't want to be British any more - at least your honest about it -

Napoleon might finally get his way.
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  #2153  
Old 20th November 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

This is still Britain and will remain Britain if we remain a member of the EU, therefore we will still be British. If we leave it's looking increasingly likely that eventually we will no longer be the United Kingdom.
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  #2154  
Old 20th November 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

If we remain won't we will simply become a collection of 4 or 5 administrative regions of the New Empire. We could save a fortune since we won't need our MPs any more, our MEPs are more than enough to handle the administration. Mind you we would need more unelected bureaucrats to take our taxes and invent new ones. All our children will enjoy conscription and the excellent career in the Empires army. Oh and we won't need any border control as the EU Empire has open doors to anywhere.

What a great future beckons.
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Last edited by wornish; 20th November 2018 at 05:23 PM. Reason: typo
  #2155  
Old 20th November 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto View Post
I thought it was the Leavers who wanted their Empire back? . Whatever, faced with the likes of China and Trump I'd much rather be staying with our EU friends than trying to go it alone. That's always assuming we have any friends left in the EU after this mess has run its course.
Well said Richard. I recall a Brexiteer in this thread said that once we are out of the EU, Britain will be calling itself Great Britain again like in the old days of the empire “we were great before and we can be great again”..... How great I wonder? in this ever changing world.
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  #2156  
Old 20th November 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

Quote:
Originally Posted by wornish View Post
Opening Paragraphs of todays speech by the French Finance Minister-


“Allow me to say straightaway to our German friends that it is time for Germany to respond to Emmanuel Macron’s proposals and come to a decision about Europe’s future.

EU as a “peaceful empire” / European sovereignty
<snip>
Building this European sovereignty then means strengthening our economic power. I think this is the first brick we’ve got to make rapid progress on. We should be looking at weeks and months much more than years.”



So Remainers is this what you want stay in - The Empire ?
You've deliberately ignored the difference between the use of the word 'empire' in it's literal and in it's figurative sense! When the first letter is capitalised it is used in it's literal sense - eg the 'British Empire' and when not eg. 'my business is my empire'. It's the same as in 'my home is my castle', which doesn't necessarily mean you literally live in a castle.

Jim
  #2157  
Old 20th November 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

Quote:
Originally Posted by wornish View Post
If we remain won't we will simply become a collection of 4 or 5 administrative regions of the New Empire. We could save a fortune since we won't need our MPs any more, our MEPs are more than enough to handle the administration. Mind you we would need more unelected bureaucrats to take our taxes and invent new ones. All our children will enjoy conscription and the excellent career in the Empires army. Oh and we won't need any border control as the EU Empire has open doors to anywhere.

What a great future beckons.
Risible!

Jim
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  #2158  
Old 20th November 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

Quote:
Originally Posted by wornish View Post
Opening Paragraphs of todays speech by the French Finance Minister-


“Allow me to say straightaway to our German friends that it is time for Germany to respond to Emmanuel Macron’s proposals and come to a decision about Europe’s future.

EU as a “peaceful empire” / European sovereignty

Why? Because it’s a key issue. There is only one issue today for future generations: building European sovereignty between Donald Trump’s United States and Xi Jinping’s China. In my view this is the only real issue. Yet to take up this challenge, the only way forward is an agreement between France and Germany; everything else is illusions and projects which will be short-lived. Only an agreement between France and Germany can allow us to build this European sovereignty, which is our challenge, the challenge of our generation, the challenge of the next 25 years.

Europe has a choice: nationalism or sovereignty. France chooses sovereignty, and I’ll go even further: I think Europe has to become an empire again; a “peaceful empire” in the words of Tocqueville, but an empire nonetheless. Between the American empire and the Chinese empire, Europe must assert itself as a peaceful empire.

An empire has allies – the United States. An empire has rivals – China. An empire has enemies and Europe has an enemy which no one names but which kills on our territory and continues to pose a major threat to all our nations: this enemy is radical Islamism.

An empire has economic interests; an empire has ambitions. Our ambition must be to assert ourselves as the empire of human rights, the empire of the rule of law, the empire of sustainable growth, capable of combating global warming.

Finally, an empire has a culture, because there’s a European culture which is the sum of this huge diversity of national cultures which make up the richness of the European continent in the deepest, most powerful and firmly rooted way, centuries and centuries of intertwined, interwoven national cultures, which have spread geographically down the centuries and allow us to be what we are.

This is my personal firm belief: Europe has got to assert itself as a peaceful empire in the next 25 years.

Beyond these great ambitions, it is essential to build this peaceful empire and European sovereignty brick by brick.

To be able to do this, every nation must recover its credibility. I won’t spend too long on this: I’m not here to set out the government’s economic policy. But my deepest belief is that by recovering its economic credibility, France also recovers its political credibility. Nations which run up deficits, which have no answer to growth problems other than more public spending and are unable to innovate or invest are discredited nations. Nations which restore their public finances and invest in the future are nations which are listened to and respected.

And this is exactly what the President, Prime Minister and I want to do.

Building this European sovereignty then means strengthening our economic power. I think this is the first brick we’ve got to make rapid progress on. We should be looking at weeks and months much more than years.”



So Remainers is this what you want stay in - The Empire ?
Absolutely shocking! If you replace the words "Europe" and "European" with "Britain" and "British" it would read like something out of the Leavers manifesto!
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  #2159  
Old 20th November 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Ford View Post
Yes but he's not vigorously promoting a Hard Brexit like Aaron Bank and J.R-M. But then to paraphrase Mandy Rice Davis, 'They would, wouldn't they!'.

Jim
But if it were not for 'your Tony' there would have been much less appetite for leaving in the first place.

Blair has a lot to answer for all round.
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  #2160  
Old 20th November 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

[QUOTE=
Blair has a lot to answer for all round.[/QUOTE]


In all fairness, ALL our politicians have a lot to answer for..... for a long, long time.

With regard to Brexit/stay, if our politicians had been good and strong enough (without attempting to feather their own nests in the process) and worked for the British people we -

1 - Would have a much better deal than we now have, or seem to have, and the deal would have been done without such delays and with much more satisfaction for both businesses and individuals.

2 - May never have had to have the referendum because we would have had a much better deal than we ever got from Europe, and stood up for our own rights and needs as an island when needed.

I could go on but I'll leave it here
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