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Old 8th October 2019
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Re: Household electricity costs

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Don’t think the church is short of a bob or two somehow.
Bless you my child.


Jax
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  #17  
Old 8th October 2019
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Re: Household electricity costs

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Bless you my child.


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Ker-chinggg!
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  #18  
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Re: Household electricity costs

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Don’t think the church is short of a bob or two somehow.
That is where you are wrong Tim. Individual parishes are responsible for their own upkeep and most are struggling. Apart from a few rare exceptions they receive no financial support from the diocese or the government so any repair and maintenance work must be funded locally.

Much of the money that the church does have (or had) came from the Queen Anne's Bounty Act of 1714 when she returned the money that had been plundered by Henry VIII during the Reformation two hundred years previously. There was also some mineral wealth from coal mines and land rights, etc., but all remaining moneys, which are managed by the Church Commissioners; a body entirely separate from the diocese and parishes, are tied up in pension funds for clergy and other employees. There is certainly no surplus, or even surplice of money sloshing around.

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Imagine the costings involved if the old large bore heating systems were still being extensively used. One pipe systems using 2-4 inch cast iron piping containing many hundreds of gallons of water that all had to be heated. The fuel cost now must be astronomical, yet some large buildings such as churches etc. have still not seen the light and converted to a modern system.

Jax
Its all about short term cost Jax.

The large pipes were installed because there were no electric pumps back in the Victorian era when many of the heating systems were installed. The boiler will usually be found in a boiler room below ground to make the most of thermal convention. In some cases floors were even raised to further improve convention.

Most church buildings now have modern condensing boilers which helps a lot as it takes a while for the water to rise above condensing temperature, but on the plus side most of the pipework is exposed so it acts as a good radiator. Some smaller bore systems are used but large radiators still need a good flow of water.

At least radiators are quiet though. Those wretched fan assisted things often used with smaller bore pipework make a right racket!
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Re: Household electricity costs

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Eventually I found that it was better to leave it on a low setting 24/7 because that way the fabric of the house and contents would warm up and not radiate cold into the room. I actually found it was cheaper to run it that way. Not by much, although I didn't need an electric heater on in the living room to make it liveable in. I think a lot depends on the type of heating system you have; with warm air systems the air has to heat the fabric before it starts to feel warm whereas with radiators the radiant heat will heat the fabric more quickly and feel warmer sooner. Eventually I had the thing taken out and replaced by a conventional boiler and radiators. You rarely see warm air heating systems these days.
Cold fabric is a problem, especially in big old buildings where it can set up unpleasant convection draughts if the air temperature is raised too quickly.

English Heretics recommend that the temperature is maintained at a constant 12 or 13 °C (and no more) to protect the fabric from excessive cold and dampness and to prevent convection draughts. In practice a constant 13 °C actually feels a lot warmer and more comfortable than 20 °C with cold fabric, but the fact remains, a constant temperature will always use more energy than only switching on the heating when required.
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Re: Household electricity costs

Well this lot seem to have a bob or two according to this article.
https://inews.co.uk/news/why-is-the-...e-money-507520

Maybe they should divvy some of it out to the local parishes?
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  #21  
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Re: Household electricity costs

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Well this lot seem to have a bob or two according to this article.
https://inews.co.uk/news/why-is-the-...e-money-507520

Maybe they should divvy some of it out to the local parishes?
It isn't as simple as that. Think of the Church Commissioners as an investment bank which is entirely separate to parishes and dioceses.

A lot of the wealth is tied up in land an buildings. St Paul's in London, for example is worth a fortune because of the land that it stands on but the Commissioners couldn't just sell it for building.

The Government Bonds which are often quoted are actually more of a hindrance than a help. These have been held for a very long time, and whilst interest is paid the capital amount has remained unchanged for over 100 years. For many of those years the bishops spent the money on their own pet social projects including housing estates until it became obvious that the investment was devaluing fast. As I said, what remains is tied up in pension funds for the huge number of retired clergy. Unfortunately the number of new stipendiary vocations is insufficient to maintain the pension fund as would be expected in other workplaces.
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Re: Household electricity costs

Catholic Church have spent a lot of their cash compensating victims of abuse
Just in the US they have paid out over $3 billion, how much must it be worldwide?
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Re: Household electricity costs

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Tell me about it! I have tried to raise the subject with our daughter who likes to spend two hours or more in the shower when she can get away with it. Her stock answer is "I've got hair; you haven't".
I have/had a wife like that...…………….wine is much cheaper...……...
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Re: Household electricity costs

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Its all about short term cost Jax.

The large pipes were installed because there were no electric pumps back in the Victorian era when many of the heating systems were installed. The boiler will usually be found in a boiler room below ground to make the most of thermal convention. In some cases floors were even raised to further improve convention.

Most church buildings now have modern condensing boilers which helps a lot as it takes a while for the water to rise above condensing temperature, but on the plus side most of the pipework is exposed so it acts as a good radiator. Some smaller bore systems are used but large radiators still need a good flow of water.

At least radiators are quiet though. Those wretched fan assisted things often used with smaller bore pipework make a right racket!

I think you meant to say "thermal convection" ?

I agree about the fan assisted radiators being noisy. They had those rattling away in a local library, ironically under signs saying "Quiet Please"

Jax
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Re: Household electricity costs

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Catholic Church have spent a lot of their cash compensating victims of abuse
Just in the US they have paid out over $3 billion, how much must it be worldwide?
Think how much they’d save by simply not abusing children!!
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  #26  
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Re: Household electricity costs

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Catholic Church have spent a lot of their cash compensating victims of abuse
Just in the US they have paid out over $3 billion, how much must it be worldwide?
Sadly that is true. In addition to the damage to the individuals concerned the abuse scandal has done immense damage to all churches and many other organisations big and small. Rather like politics it only takes a few rotten eggs to spoil things for everyone.

The Roman Catholic church is in a slightly different position to other denominations as many of their buildings are fairly recent and not listed, so they can at least be sold for redevelopment which has already happened in many places. I'm not sure how they organise their finances though.
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Re: Household electricity costs

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Originally Posted by Naughty Nigel View Post
Sadly that is true. In addition to the damage to the individuals concerned the abuse scandal has done immense damage to all churches and many other organisations big and small. Rather like politics it only takes a few rotten eggs to spoil things for everyone.

The Roman Catholic church is in a slightly different position to other denominations as many of their buildings are fairly recent and not listed, so they can at least be sold for redevelopment which has already happened in many places. I'm not sure how they organise their finances though.
Not so sure it was just a few rotten eggs though, pretty endemic in quite a few places.
How much of it remains undocumented because of fear, a fair amount I suspect.
Think I read somewhere that clergy don't require to undertake a DBS check.
Mind you so much has been hushed up or victims paid for their silence that the offenders are unlikely to have been prosecuted
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Re: Household electricity costs

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Think how much they’d save by simply not abusing children!!
Not to mention the damage to the victims!

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Not so sure it was just a few rotten eggs though, pretty endemic in quite a few places.
How much of it remains undocumented because of fear, a fair amount I suspect.

Think I read somewhere that clergy don't require to undertake a DBS check.
Mind you so much has been hushed up or victims paid for their silence that the offenders are unlikely to have been prosecuted
Clergy DO need DBS checks; in fact everyone with access to children and vulnerable adults needs a DBS check, although the value of these checks is questionable unless those concerned have been previously convicted or cautioned.

While the CRB and DBS systems were introduced for all the right reasons they really need to be overhauled to make them for for purpose. A friend who was a supply teacher before she retired needed separate CRB or DBS checks for every school that she worked in even though all were under the same LEA!

I would hope the fear of reporting offenders has long since gone, but as time passes there will be fewer and fewer victims left to report historical offences I suppose.

Having known a couple of people who have been jailed for child sexual abuse (neither of them clergy BTW) what amazes me is how 'normal' they had seemed to everyone. They were certainly not obvious 'dirty old men'. They were also exceptionally talented in their professional lives so I don't think they had followed a particular career path just to get access to children.
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Re: Household electricity costs

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A friend who was a supply teacher before she retired needed separate CRB or DBS checks for every school that she worked in even though all were under the same LEA!
Within our local council, if a person is currently working for one department, been CRB checked, then applies for and is successful in obtaining a position in a different dept., another CRB check is required. The CRB checks used to take between 3 - 4 weeks before the result was confirmed.

This is apparently because, each department is semi independent, and responsible for ensuring the validity of it's own employees.

Jax
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Re: Household electricity costs

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Within our local council, if a person is currently working for one department, been CRB checked, then applies for and is successful in obtaining a position in a different dept., another CRB check is required. The CRB checks used to take between 3 - 4 weeks before the result was confirmed.

This is apparently because, each department is semi independent, and responsible for ensuring the validity of it's own employees.

Jax
Don’t they all come under one HR dept? Surely that’s part of what HR is there for? Seems like an unnecessary waste of time, money and resources.
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