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Software Discuss Olympus Master, Studio and Viewer software applications as well as third party programs like Adobe Photoshop, Lightroom, Apple Aperture, and others.

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Old 23rd October 2014
Footloose1949 Footloose1949 is offline
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v2 firmware update & Keystone function.

Has anyone here used or seen any online reviews of the Keystone function which comes with the v2 firmware update? I use PSP X6, and when you use the Perspective feature in that, [Effects > Geometric > Vertical or Horizontal] it tapers IN one side of the image, which means you then have to crop down the width of the image on which the taper has operated. I'm wondering if the keystone function in camera works the same way, and then crops it so that the file when downloaded, is also cropped? What I would like someone to develop, is a computer-software based keystone function, that allows you to select the actual area that you want the perspective correction applied to, which then also expands the area that has NOT been selected, (on the 'narrowed' side) so that it is 'spread out' so it fits the original frame size.

I seem to remember seeing back in the 90s a piece of Apple software (on a computer graphics course I was on, which actually did just that. Maybe this was a 'high-end' custom-designed app costing a hell of money, that someone then was trialling before it was going to be released, but in the end, it was never actually marketed? - I think the bloke I saw using it, was something to do with the MOD ... I certainly know that before 2000, they had a graphics package, which had movement-tracking cameras hooked into it, so you could make changes to an image via hand and arm movements, so god only knows what some of their kit is like nowadays!
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Old 24th October 2014
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Re: v2 firmware update & Keystone function.

I have been trying out the Keystone function recently while attempting Greek village scenes. It does seem to do as you suggest but I found it of limited use. Either with EVF or LCD the image is too small and with no grid to get an accurate result, and many of my attempts have had to be re-adjusted in LR on a larger screen. So I am not sure it was a worthwhile addition to the firmware. More testing needed though.

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Old 24th October 2014
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Re: v2 firmware update & Keystone function.

Here is an image I took using it & the reprocessed RAW with it disabled. You can check to see what is cropped (from the bottom & lower sides) or expanded in them.



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I fiddle with violins (when I'm not fiddling with a camera).
Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/ross-the-fiddler/
Cameras: OM-D E-M1 & Mk II, Olympus Stylus 1, OM-D E-M5.
Lenses: M.ZD12-40mm f2.8 PRO Lens, M.ZD40-150mm f2.8 PRO Lens with MC-14, M.ZD12-50, M.ZD60 Macro, M.ZD75-300 Mk II, MMF-3, ZD14-54 II, Sigma 150mm F2.8 APO Macro DG HSM.
Flashes: FL36R X2, FL50R, FL50.
Software: Capture One Pro 10 (& Olympus Viewer 3).
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Old 24th October 2014
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Re: v2 firmware update & Keystone function.

Thanks Ross, that looks as if it's applying this function the way I was hoping it would. Whilst you probably can't apply this as 'accurately' as computer-based software, it will reduce the level of correction you need to apply later on with a computer. This would seem to indicate that people under-estimate the processing power that is inside a camera, or that our PC based software manufacturers can't be bothered to produce the code to do the same thing on a PC that has vastly more processing power!

A sobering aside to this, is that when the Pentium first appeared, you could get a piece of software that 'emulated' what Valves and mechanical Post Office relays and switches did inside Colossus. Embarrassingly, the Pentium, took 4-6 times longer to find the decryption codes than Colossus did!
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Old 24th October 2014
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Re: v2 firmware update & Keystone function.

How does the in camera keystone correction differ from the trapezoidal correction in Oymlpus Viewer 2 and 3? Not having am E-M1 I can't check for myself.
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Old 24th October 2014
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Re: v2 firmware update & Keystone function.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OM USer View Post
How does the in camera keystone correction differ from the trapezoidal correction in Oymlpus Viewer 2 and 3? Not having am E-M1 I can't check for myself.
You can check it for yourself in the EDIT tab of OV3 (with the latest OV3 update Version 1.4). It can be applied to RAWs & JPEGs.
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I fiddle with violins (when I'm not fiddling with a camera).
Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/ross-the-fiddler/
Cameras: OM-D E-M1 & Mk II, Olympus Stylus 1, OM-D E-M5.
Lenses: M.ZD12-40mm f2.8 PRO Lens, M.ZD40-150mm f2.8 PRO Lens with MC-14, M.ZD12-50, M.ZD60 Macro, M.ZD75-300 Mk II, MMF-3, ZD14-54 II, Sigma 150mm F2.8 APO Macro DG HSM.
Flashes: FL36R X2, FL50R, FL50.
Software: Capture One Pro 10 (& Olympus Viewer 3).
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Old 24th October 2014
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Re: v2 firmware update & Keystone function.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross the fiddler View Post
You can check it for yourself in the EDIT tab of OV3 (with the latest OV3 update Version 1.4). It can be applied to RAWs & JPEGs.
Ah... Thanks Ross. Not sure why you need 2 ways of doing the same thing.

I'm obviously missing something in my interpretation of the keystone function. Why is is it cropping so much off the top (or bottom, depending on the second slider). It only needs to crop the sides to keep a rectangular picture and even then its debatable as you could show the sloping sides as areas of black and auto/manual crop as you do in the rotate tool.

The other missing option is where the keystoning has its mid point about which the sides slope in or out (assuming vertical keystone correction). Or to put it another way, do you shrink the top (or bottom) or expand the bottom (or top) or a bit of both (again assuming vertical keystone correction). I have often adjusted the keystone perspective of a picture involving a person only to make them look thin or fat and I have to use another application to stretch/shrink the picture so they look normal. This is one of the useful tools that Olympus Viewer does not seem to have (like having the trapezoidal and shift options only in the horizontal and not in the vertical)
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Old 25th October 2014
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Re: v2 firmware update & Keystone function.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OM USer View Post
Ah... Thanks Ross. Not sure why you need 2 ways of doing the same thing.

I'm obviously missing something in my interpretation of the keystone function. Why is is it cropping so much off the top (or bottom, depending on the second slider). It only needs to crop the sides to keep a rectangular picture and even then its debatable as you could show the sloping sides as areas of black and auto/manual crop as you do in the rotate tool.

The other missing option is where the keystoning has its mid point about which the sides slope in or out (assuming vertical keystone correction). Or to put it another way, do you shrink the top (or bottom) or expand the bottom (or top) or a bit of both (again assuming vertical keystone correction). I have often adjusted the keystone perspective of a picture involving a person only to make them look thin or fat and I have to use another application to stretch/shrink the picture so they look normal. This is one of the useful tools that Olympus Viewer does not seem to have (like having the trapezoidal and shift options only in the horizontal and not in the vertical)
It only expands top, bottom or either side with no option to change the cropping area in camera as it can be framed to suit when taking the shot, but that cropping point adjustment in OV3 is only there for post adjustment. This Keystone feature can be adjusted for extreme results, which can be desirable for an effect. In Capture One (Pro 8) I can adjust both directions at once if desired (& dragging the 4 alignment points to where ever wanted) & there are occasions that might be needed.
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Ross
I fiddle with violins (when I'm not fiddling with a camera).
Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/ross-the-fiddler/
Cameras: OM-D E-M1 & Mk II, Olympus Stylus 1, OM-D E-M5.
Lenses: M.ZD12-40mm f2.8 PRO Lens, M.ZD40-150mm f2.8 PRO Lens with MC-14, M.ZD12-50, M.ZD60 Macro, M.ZD75-300 Mk II, MMF-3, ZD14-54 II, Sigma 150mm F2.8 APO Macro DG HSM.
Flashes: FL36R X2, FL50R, FL50.
Software: Capture One Pro 10 (& Olympus Viewer 3).
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