Olympus UK E-System User Group
Olympus UK E-System User Group

Join our unique resource for Olympus Four Thirds E-System DSLR and Pen and OM-D Micro Four Thirds photographers. Show your images via our free e-group photo gallery. Please read the e-group.uk.net forum terms and conditions before posting for the first time. Above all, welcome!


Go Back   Olympus UK E-System User Group > Cameras, lenses and system accessories > Camera conference > Olympus E-620/600

Olympus E-620/600 An Olympus 12.1MP mid-range compact DSLR, the E-620 and the feature-reduiced version, the E-600.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 15th March 2010
meach meach is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Stockton-on-Tees, UK
Posts: 653
Thanks: 125
Thanked 30 Times in 28 Posts
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Strange pink bits

I use a variety of software packages to convert my raw files to jpeg depending on circumstances. I recently acquired an E-600 and after I converted the first batch of photos to jpeg using Paint Shop Pro I noticed some (but not all) of them had some pink patches and were noticeably darker. I've converted them twice now and it happened to the same photos each time, however if I convert them using Faststone they come out fine. Here are a couple of examples from the same raw file:

Converted using Faststone



Converted using Paint Shop Pro



I just wondered if anyone else had experienced this or knows what causes it?
__________________
Paul
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 15th March 2010
shenstone's Avatar
shenstone shenstone is online now
Administrator
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Cardiff
Posts: 3,490
Thanks: 171
Thanked 339 Times in 259 Posts
Likes: 462
Liked 553 Times in 300 Posts
Re: Strange pink bits

I've had it before and on specific files with a variety of outcomes as well

In the end I found 2 root causes

1. The file was corrupt - this does happen and I've found like you that some programes are more likely to cope than others (not always the same way around on different files). It's been rare over the years and fauly flash cards needing to be reformatted may have been partly to blame.

2. I did once report a bug with E-500 files to Imatch ( http://ptforum.photoolsweb.com/ubbth...r=43101&page=1 )that came back as a problem with their image proessing libraries - now long resolved. The interesting information I got out of that was that Oly don't publish documentation on their RAW processing to any software developers to everyone has to get a file and reverse engineer it every time there is a new version and all the Oly cameras tend to have different ORF versions. This is obviously going to mean differences.

Bottom line is as long as you can get what you need out it's OK, and it's unlikely to be anything you did
__________________
My Kit (OK I'm a hoarder...)
4/3 E500, E510, E30 + 35macro, 50macro, 7-14, 11-22, 14-45 (x2), 14-54, 40-150 (both types), 50-200, 70-300, 50-500,
m 4/3 EM1MkII + 60 macro, 12-100 Pro
FL20, FL36 x2 , FL50, cactus slaves etc.
The Boss (Mrs Shenstone) E620, EM10-II, 14-41Ez, 40-150R, 9 cap and whatever she can nick from me when she wants it

My places
http://www.shenstone.me.uk
http://landroverkaty.blogspot.com/
https://vimeo.com/shenstone
http://cardiffnaturalists.org.uk/
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 15th March 2010
meach meach is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Stockton-on-Tees, UK
Posts: 653
Thanks: 125
Thanked 30 Times in 28 Posts
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Re: Strange pink bits

I know there's a problem with the E-600 in that Adobe Camera Raw in doesn't even recognise its raw files so I guessed it might be something to do with that (but it's strange that it's only some images - and the same ones each time). If it happens again I'll try reformatting the card and see if that stops it happening.
__________________
Paul
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 15th March 2010
meach meach is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Stockton-on-Tees, UK
Posts: 653
Thanks: 125
Thanked 30 Times in 28 Posts
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Re: Strange pink bits

Quote:
Originally Posted by shenstone View Post
I've had it before and on specific files with a variety of outcomes as well

In the end I found 2 root causes

1. The file was corrupt - this does happen and I've found like you that some programes are more likely to cope than others (not always the same way around on different files). It's been rare over the years and fauly flash cards needing to be reformatted may have been partly to blame.

2. I did once report a bug with E-500 files to Imatch ( http://ptforum.photoolsweb.com/ubbth...r=43101&page=1 )that came back as a problem with their image proessing libraries - now long resolved. The interesting information I got out of that was that Oly don't publish documentation on their RAW processing to any software developers to everyone has to get a file and reverse engineer it every time there is a new version and all the Oly cameras tend to have different ORF versions. This is obviously going to mean differences.

Bottom line is as long as you can get what you need out it's OK, and it's unlikely to be anything you did
Oh yes - and I'm glad you recommended Faststone to me - otherwise I'd be stuck with the pink ones Thanks again Andy
__________________
Paul
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 15th March 2010
shenstone's Avatar
shenstone shenstone is online now
Administrator
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Cardiff
Posts: 3,490
Thanks: 171
Thanked 339 Times in 259 Posts
Likes: 462
Liked 553 Times in 300 Posts
Re: Strange pink bits

Quote:
Originally Posted by meach View Post
I know there's a problem with the E-600 in that Adobe Camera Raw in doesn't even recognise its raw files so I guessed it might be something to do with that (but it's strange that it's only some images - and the same ones each time). If it happens again I'll try reformatting the card and see if that stops it happening.
That's to do with Adobe's upgrade cycle - they do not provide patches to add cameras to prior versions of their software and they have cut-offs for various pieces and versions of software in their release process in. What it means is you have to buy the upgraded versions to get your camera supported. Which of course we all like to do just to keep them in profit anyway

Regards
Andy
__________________
My Kit (OK I'm a hoarder...)
4/3 E500, E510, E30 + 35macro, 50macro, 7-14, 11-22, 14-45 (x2), 14-54, 40-150 (both types), 50-200, 70-300, 50-500,
m 4/3 EM1MkII + 60 macro, 12-100 Pro
FL20, FL36 x2 , FL50, cactus slaves etc.
The Boss (Mrs Shenstone) E620, EM10-II, 14-41Ez, 40-150R, 9 cap and whatever she can nick from me when she wants it

My places
http://www.shenstone.me.uk
http://landroverkaty.blogspot.com/
https://vimeo.com/shenstone
http://cardiffnaturalists.org.uk/
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 15th March 2010
Rawcoll's Avatar
Rawcoll Rawcoll is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Oxfordshire
Posts: 381
Thanks: 26
Thanked 62 Times in 34 Posts
Likes: 25
Liked 46 Times in 28 Posts
Re: Strange pink bits

Paul, I might be well off-beam here but given that the sky is totally white, could it be that the pink is a result of the way Paint Shop Pro recovers clipped channels? I haven't used PSP so I am not familiar with it.

Wrotniak has looked at a number of Raw converters vis-ŗ-vis the E-30 (http://www.wrotniak.net/photo/43/e30-hirec.html). Picture Window Pro rendered clipped channels as yellow!

Regards
Ian
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 15th March 2010
OlyPaul's Avatar
OlyPaul OlyPaul is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: West Midlands
Posts: 5,470
Thanks: 140
Thanked 715 Times in 577 Posts
Likes: 177
Liked 875 Times in 355 Posts
Re: Strange pink bits

Its not the files but the raw converter and how it is reading the files that is causing the problem, Paintshop Pro is not the sharpest knife in the draw as far as raw converters go. ACDsee had this problem for a short while with a former ORF file ( I think it was the E-510) untill they put a software patch out, I would not hold my breath waiting for PSP to do it.
__________________
Regards Paul.
One day I hope to be the person my dogs think I am.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/paul_silk/
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 15th March 2010
meach meach is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Stockton-on-Tees, UK
Posts: 653
Thanks: 125
Thanked 30 Times in 28 Posts
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Re: Strange pink bits

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rawcoll View Post
Paul, I might be well off-beam here but given that the sky is totally white, could it be that the pink is a result of the way Paint Shop Pro recovers clipped channels? I haven't used PSP so I am not familiar with it.

Wrotniak has looked at a number of Raw converters vis-ŗ-vis the E-30 (http://www.wrotniak.net/photo/43/e30-hirec.html). Picture Window Pro rendered clipped channels as yellow!

Regards
Ian
It could well be but I really just don't know. What's strange (though you can't really see it in these small shots) is that the sky showing through the trees (as opposed to above the trees) is white - the pink is only above the treeline (you can see this better in the gallery photos).
__________________
Paul
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 15th March 2010
Rawcoll's Avatar
Rawcoll Rawcoll is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Oxfordshire
Posts: 381
Thanks: 26
Thanked 62 Times in 34 Posts
Likes: 25
Liked 46 Times in 28 Posts
Re: Strange pink bits

From what I understand a raw converter has to interpret what the colour should be if one or more RGB channels is saturated. Clearly, if only one channel has clipped that is a much easier task, and one more likely to give a reasonable rendition, than if two or all three channels have clipped. The abilities of different raw converters to do this well does vary I believe, and I guess it also will depend on the file type. Are you able to see if any or some of the channels are clipped in the pink region, and if this differs according to whether the region is high in the sky or in the tree-line? If so, that could explain the difference in rendition between the two regions. But I agree with Shenstone in that I suspect it is nothing that you have done, and so long as you have a raw converter which works OK that is what matters.

Incidentally, I had a quick look at the PSP website and didn't see a link to a 'supported cameras' page. Is the E-600 officially supported?

Regards
Ian
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 16th March 2010
meach meach is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Stockton-on-Tees, UK
Posts: 653
Thanks: 125
Thanked 30 Times in 28 Posts
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Re: Strange pink bits

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rawcoll View Post
Are you able to see if any or some of the channels are clipped in the pink region, and if this differs according to whether the region is high in the sky or in the tree-line?

Regards
Ian
I'm not sure how to check this but I'll have a look. I doubt if the E-600 is officially supported as it was released long after I bought the software.
__________________
Paul
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 16th March 2010
meach meach is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Stockton-on-Tees, UK
Posts: 653
Thanks: 125
Thanked 30 Times in 28 Posts
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Re: Strange pink bits

I've just revisited these shots and PSP displays the pink bits even when just viewing the raw files. So it's not the conversion process it's the way PSP sees them. It may well be caused by clipping but I'm afraid that's beyond my expertise. As mentioned earlier this isn't causing me any problem as I have alternatives but I wondered if anyone else had experience of the phenomenon.
__________________
Paul
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 16th March 2010
Rawcoll's Avatar
Rawcoll Rawcoll is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Oxfordshire
Posts: 381
Thanks: 26
Thanked 62 Times in 34 Posts
Likes: 25
Liked 46 Times in 28 Posts
Re: Strange pink bits

Paul

Ah, I see you've posted before I could get this out!

Anyway, I suspect then that your camera not being supported by the software is the cause of your problem. Raw converters need to be optimised for each camera that they support, which is why you see these bits of software regularly updated.

So where do you go from here? One option might be to convert the Oly raw file to dng format, assuming that your software also supports dng. Adobe have a free bit of software available for download to do that, although having just checked I donít think that supports the E-600 yet! Alternatively, are there any updates available for Paint Shop Pro to include support for the E-600? Failing that, I guess the answer is to use any other raw converter that you have access to and does the job OK. At the moment it doesnít look like Silkypix or Lightroom 2 support the E-600. I wonder what others use for this camera?

To check whether the pink areas correspond to blown out parts of the image, it should be possible to get a readout of the RGB values at different parts of the original image. I donít know how this is done in PSP, but is some software you just need to put your cursor at the place of interest and the RGB values are shown in a box somewhere on the screen. If one of the RGB values is 255, then it is likely that channel is clipped. The question is, is there any difference in the number of channels that are clipped between the pink and the white parts of the image? In other words, is it perhaps only when all three channels are clipped that you get the pink colour.

Is it possible to 'recover' the highlights by turning down the 'exposure' setting in your software, or is there is a 'highlight recovery' control that could be used? If so, worth giving that a try.

Anyway, the reason for it happening is really rather a moot point, so I wouldn't worry about it too much. As you've observed, it would seem to be the conversion process. If you can convert your images using other software which doesnít cause the problem, and there isnít an update for your existing software, then use that instead. Thatís the only way youíd be able to get around it I think. Other than that, ensure that the exposure is such that blowing out the highlights doesnít occur, but obviously that isnít always possible.

Regards
Ian
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 16th March 2010
meach meach is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Stockton-on-Tees, UK
Posts: 653
Thanks: 125
Thanked 30 Times in 28 Posts
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Re: Strange pink bits

Now we're getting somewhere perhaps. In the pink areas the red has a value of 255 (but neither of the others is anywhere close).
__________________
Paul
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 16th March 2010
Rawcoll's Avatar
Rawcoll Rawcoll is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Oxfordshire
Posts: 381
Thanks: 26
Thanked 62 Times in 34 Posts
Likes: 25
Liked 46 Times in 28 Posts
Re: Strange pink bits

Well that could be it. I am assuming that the sky was an overcast grey, but actually a lot brighter than your subject. I find that this is always very testing, and it's easy to blow out the sky. Have you tried reducing the level of the exposure control on your PSP converter to see what happens? This may let you recover the channel if it's not too blown out. If you have a histogram view, then you should see the curve shift to the left, away from the top end, as you do this. Ideally, none of the curve should be hard up against the right hand end. It would be interesting to see if you can get it to a point where the pink colouration disappears. Of course, the whole image will darken and you would probably need to counteract this using other PSP controls. This is one way to idle away a few happy hours .

Ian
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 16th March 2010
meach meach is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Stockton-on-Tees, UK
Posts: 653
Thanks: 125
Thanked 30 Times in 28 Posts
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Re: Strange pink bits

Well you live and learn - my first attempt at using curves:



Perhaps a bit over done compared with the faststone image - but then again maybe not!!

Thank you so much for your advice Ian - I might now try this with other images in future. Someone really needs to write an idiots guide to post processing - as someone else said on here - it's not knowing how to do things that's the problem it's knowing what you need to do!!
__________________
Paul
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
HELP! Purple bits on a pink cyclamen Ellie Olympus E-30 9 10th December 2009 02:06 PM
Strange Sky gregles Foto Fair 5 7th October 2009 12:08 PM
E-510, 14-54 delicate pink... gusmur Looking for improvement 3 18th July 2009 09:13 PM
FS. Bits & Bobs. EH1 For sale or wanted small ads 7 1st July 2009 01:52 PM
Strange Bee-haviour JohnGG Foto Fair 5 23rd May 2009 12:46 AM


All times are GMT. The time now is 09:39 PM.


© The Write Technology Ltd, 2007-2019, All rights reservedAd Management plugin by RedTyger