Olympus UK E-System User Group
Olympus UK E-System User Group

Join our unique resource for Olympus Four Thirds E-System DSLR and Pen and OM-D Micro Four Thirds photographers. Show your images via our free e-group photo gallery. Please read the e-group.uk.net forum terms and conditions before posting for the first time. Above all, welcome!


Go Back   Olympus UK E-System User Group > General photography discussion

General photography discussion Please look for a specific board to start your thread but if you can't find an appropriate one, post it here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 3rd January 2018
RobEW RobEW is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Nottingham
Posts: 2,055
Thanks: 166
Thanked 75 Times in 69 Posts
Likes: 1,202
Liked 194 Times in 132 Posts
What comes between 12 and 30?

It seems a big gap between O12 and S30, so for walkaround I often have O12-60SWD + MMF3 which is great. But maybe another prime would give even better IQ and be compact, light, unobtrusive and brighter in low light. O17? The more affordable P20? Something else?

(If buildings are featured I like verticals to be parallel, not converging, so - lacking shift lenses - I sometimes like to shoot wider than necessary, with camera horizontal and later crop off unwanted foreground in lower part of frame.)
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 3rd January 2018
Ricoh Ricoh is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 5,792
Thanks: 592
Thanked 421 Times in 373 Posts
Likes: 787
Liked 1,919 Times in 1,143 Posts
Re: What comes between 12 and 30?

Ernst Hass said the best lens that you have is your feet.
__________________
Steve

on flickr
Reply With Quote
The Following User Liked This Post:
drmarkf (3rd January 2018)
  #3  
Old 3rd January 2018
RobEW RobEW is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Nottingham
Posts: 2,055
Thanks: 166
Thanked 75 Times in 69 Posts
Likes: 1,202
Liked 194 Times in 132 Posts
Re: What comes between 12 and 30?

:-)

Feet can't always get the composition you want though, as I'm sure you know. Being able to fly would sometimes be nice, and being able to remove buildings and other obstructions which are in the way.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 3rd January 2018
Ricoh Ricoh is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 5,792
Thanks: 592
Thanked 421 Times in 373 Posts
Likes: 787
Liked 1,919 Times in 1,143 Posts
Re: What comes between 12 and 30?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobEW View Post
:-)

...Being able to fly would sometimes be nice, and being able to remove buildings and other obstructions which are in the way.
All things are possible. I use to fly and take photographs.
__________________
Steve

on flickr
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 3rd January 2018
Otto's Avatar
Otto Otto is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 3,198
Thanks: 98
Thanked 288 Times in 253 Posts
Likes: 1,111
Liked 957 Times in 608 Posts
Re: What comes between 12 and 30?

You could always buy a drone. Might be cheaper than a new lens! That said the 12-60 is a superb performer, it's just a shame its focussing performance on most mFT bodies is less than stellar. I'm not sure whether the IQ from the primes is any better but others will be able to answer that better than I can I'm sure.

If I want to do some landscape though with a tripod, I'll generally pick the 12-60 and use MF. Unless, as is too often the case nowadays, I'm feeling too lazy to carry it and take the 12-50 instead!
__________________
Regards
Richard
Reply With Quote
The Following User Liked This Post:
RobEW (3rd January 2018)
  #6  
Old 3rd January 2018
RobEW RobEW is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Nottingham
Posts: 2,055
Thanks: 166
Thanked 75 Times in 69 Posts
Likes: 1,202
Liked 194 Times in 132 Posts
Re: What comes between 12 and 30?

As far as I can see, you're not supposed to fly drones near buildings or people, which would make them not very useful for my purposes. Also most of them cost a *lot* more than a Panasonic 20 / 1.7
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 3rd January 2018
OM USer's Avatar
OM USer OM USer is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: London
Posts: 12,499
Thanks: 2,451
Thanked 1,544 Times in 1,468 Posts
Likes: 6,451
Liked 1,458 Times in 932 Posts
Re: What comes between 12 and 30?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobEW View Post
...If buildings are featured I like verticals to be parallel, not converging, so - lacking shift lenses - I sometimes like to shoot wider than necessary, with camera horizontal and later crop off unwanted foreground in lower part of frame.
Me too. For tall buildings I rotate the camera (to vertical/portrait) and crop off the entire lower half of the picture.
__________________
Cameras: E-M5, E-PM2, OM40, OM4Ti
Lenses (M.Zuiko Digital): 7-14mm/F2.8, 12-40mm/F2.8, 40-150mm/F2.8+TC1.4x, 12-50mm/F3.5-6.3, 14-42mm/F3.5-5.6 EZ, M.ZD 40-150 F4-5.6 R, 75-300mm/F4.8-6.7 Mk1, 12mm/F2, 17mm/F1.8
Lenses (OM Zuiko): 50mm/F1.2, 24mm/F2, 35mm/F2.8 shift
Lenses (OM Fit): Vivitar Series II 28-105mm/F2.8-3.8, Sigma 21-35mm/F3.4-4.2, Sigma 35-70mm/F2.8-4, Sigma 75-200mm/F2.8-3.5, Vivitar Series II 100-500mm/F5.6-8.0, Centon 500mm/F8 Mirror
Learn something new every day
Reply With Quote
The Following User Liked This Post:
RobEW (3rd January 2018)
  #8  
Old 3rd January 2018
blu-by-u blu-by-u is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Selangor, Malaysia
Posts: 1,991
Thanks: 228
Thanked 107 Times in 93 Posts
Likes: 369
Liked 708 Times in 377 Posts
Re: What comes between 12 and 30?

Why not do a panorama? and since it's buildings, they don't move unlike humans.

I had the 42.5 NOCTICRON and nothing wide to get the whole group. So it was a quick 3 shot stitch.
__________________
* Henry
* Location: Subang Jaya, Selangor
* Malaysia


All my garbage so far.
Reply With Quote
The Following Users Liked This Post:
MJ224 (5th January 2018), RobEW (3rd January 2018)
  #9  
Old 3rd January 2018
RobEW RobEW is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Nottingham
Posts: 2,055
Thanks: 166
Thanked 75 Times in 69 Posts
Likes: 1,202
Liked 194 Times in 132 Posts
Re: What comes between 12 and 30?

Quote:
Originally Posted by OM USer View Post
Me too. For tall buildings I rotate the camera (to vertical/portrait) and crop off the entire lower half of the picture.
Yes, exactly. When I said with camera horizontal, I meant (as I'm sure you understand) with the line from centre of sensor through centre of lens horizontal. Better still of course to be able to take the shot from further away with a less wide angle lens but often other buildings / obstacles preclude. High viewpoints are good for this too, but again rarely possible.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to RobEW For This Useful Post:
OM USer (3rd January 2018)
  #10  
Old 3rd January 2018
blu-by-u blu-by-u is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Selangor, Malaysia
Posts: 1,991
Thanks: 228
Thanked 107 Times in 93 Posts
Likes: 369
Liked 708 Times in 377 Posts
Re: What comes between 12 and 30?

Went searching in my flickr and I found this vertical panorama that I did of the Goungchow tower.


This was not done with a an Oly but nevertheless a mft. GF2 with a lumix 17mm
__________________
* Henry
* Location: Subang Jaya, Selangor
* Malaysia


All my garbage so far.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Liked This Post:
RobEW (3rd January 2018)
  #11  
Old 3rd January 2018
pdk42's Avatar
pdk42 pdk42 is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Leamington Spa
Posts: 5,710
Thanks: 370
Thanked 1,257 Times in 942 Posts
Likes: 150
Liked 6,007 Times in 1,955 Posts
Re: What comes between 12 and 30?

The obvious anser is 17mm when AOV is compared:

12mm - diagonal AOV = 84 deg
17mm - diagonal AOV = 64 deg
30mm - diagonal AOV = 39 deg

IMHO if lenses were marked as AOV and not FL then things would be much easier - and it would make comparison across systems much easier. My 25/1.8 would be an AOV 47 and a 50mm on a "FF" camera would be also an AOV 47. Simple.
__________________
Paul
E-M1ii, Pen-F and too many lenses
flickr
Portfolio Site
Instagram
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to pdk42 For This Useful Post:
shenstone (4th January 2018)
The Following Users Liked This Post:
Greytop (3rd January 2018), RobEW (3rd January 2018)
  #12  
Old 3rd January 2018
drmarkf's Avatar
drmarkf drmarkf is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Cambridge, UK
Posts: 5,647
Thanks: 360
Thanked 508 Times in 422 Posts
Likes: 2,219
Liked 1,281 Times in 728 Posts
Re: What comes between 12 and 30?

Yeah. I've had 'zoom anxiety' on the plane over to European city breaks when I've been carrying just one camera body with a 35mm-ish prime.

However, in retrospect I don't think I've ever regretted travelling so comfortably light - it's gloriously liberating and there's nothing to lose (your whole kit is in your hand, all the time).

You know the field of view exactly so you look for shots that suit, you've always got the correct lens on and, yes, you zoom with your feet.
__________________
Regards,
Mark

------------------------------
http://www.microcontrast.com
Too much Oly gear.
Panasonic GM5, 12-32, 12-35, 15. Laowa 7.5.
Assorted legacy lenses, plus a Fuji X70 & a Sony A7S.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Liked This Post:
RobEW (3rd January 2018)
  #13  
Old 5th January 2018
Petrochemist Petrochemist is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: N Essex
Posts: 743
Thanks: 37
Thanked 85 Times in 78 Posts
Likes: 218
Liked 133 Times in 96 Posts
Re: What comes between 12 and 30?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pdk42 View Post
The obvious anser is 17mm when AOV is compared:

12mm - diagonal AOV = 84 deg
17mm - diagonal AOV = 64 deg
30mm - diagonal AOV = 39 deg

IMHO if lenses were marked as AOV and not FL then things would be much easier - and it would make comparison across systems much easier. My 25/1.8 would be an AOV 47 and a 50mm on a "FF" camera would be also an AOV 47. Simple.

That would get complicated for DSLR users where the same lens can be used on both FF & crop cameras. AOV would even change if you switch from 4:3 to 3:2 etc. It might have made sense when most cameras used 35mm film, but even then it would have involved reinventing the wheel, as AOV would not be as earlier formats. (In the early days of photography a wide variety of film sizes where used possible more than the number of common sensor sizes today)
__________________
Mike
Compulsive photographic Dabbler.
Flickr
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 5th January 2018
Graham_of_Rainham's Avatar
Graham_of_Rainham Graham_of_Rainham is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Rainham
Posts: 8,223
Thanks: 647
Thanked 951 Times in 735 Posts
Likes: 2,313
Liked 1,624 Times in 937 Posts
Re: What comes between 12 and 30?

Personally, I've never had a problem with what numbers are on a lens...

I have always tended to think in terms of Wide-Angle for Landscape, Short-Tele for Portraits and Long-Tele for Wildlife.

With Macro, I prefer a longer Focal Length to get a greater working distance, to get the light in to the subject.

Having used almost everything from 200x microscope objectives on 4x5 film backs to 1200mm on 16mm film, the numbers have little to do with how we set things up, it was always about filling the frame with the subject.

When zoom lenses got good enough this made life a little easier, and framing the subject from a static camera position.

From the original question, I would go with a lens that was mid way between Wide and Standard. One with 17 or 20 written on it would be a good place to start...
__________________
Graham

We often repeat the mistakes we most enjoy...
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Graham_of_Rainham For This Useful Post:
RobEW (5th January 2018)
  #15  
Old 6th January 2018
RobEW RobEW is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Nottingham
Posts: 2,055
Thanks: 166
Thanked 75 Times in 69 Posts
Likes: 1,202
Liked 194 Times in 132 Posts
Re: What comes between 12 and 30?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pdk42 View Post
The obvious anser is 17mm when AOV is compared:

12mm - diagonal AOV = 84 deg
17mm - diagonal AOV = 64 deg
30mm - diagonal AOV = 39 deg

IMHO if lenses were marked as AOV and not FL then things would be much easier - and it would make comparison across systems much easier. My 25/1.8 would be an AOV 47 and a 50mm on a "FF" camera would be also an AOV 47. Simple.
Thinking about this again, if one were looking purely to "split the difference" or "fill the gap" in some meaningful way, I guess the most useful comparison would be to seek an arithmentic progression of the size of the visual field. (Is this what's meant by "field of view"?) What I mean is this. Imagine photogtaphing a giant vertical grid like a chessboard but larger with thousands of squares, all photos taken from the same distance and perpendicular to the board and from a viewpoint level with the centre of it. Maybe a useful basis for comparing focal lengths of lenses (for a given camera) would be the number of squares captured.

I guess there's a non-trivial relationship between angle of view and number of squares.

Practically speaking, it makes more sense to consider factors like how much cropping is okay and how much perspective distortion is acceptable and whether we want a shallow depth of field. (If I don't mind cropping and distortion and like everything to be in focus then I could stick to the 12mm).
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 03:00 PM.


The Write Technology Ltd, 2007-2019, All rights reservedAd Management plugin by RedTyger