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The lounge Relax, take a break from photo and camera talk - have a chat about something else for a change. Just keep it clean and polite!

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  #196  
Old 6th October 2019
Jim Ford Jim Ford is offline
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Re: Boris Gate

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Originally Posted by Graham_of_Rainham View Post
Hello ALL!

Can we please express our feelings, opinions, beliefs, etc., in a way that is not directed towards any specific fellow members of this group.
I can't say that I've noticed posts "directed towards any specific fellow members of this group". I must have missed any!

Jim
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  #197  
Old 6th October 2019
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Re: Boris Gate

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Ok, lets discuss Thatcher, pointless waste of life lost in the Falklands for political purposes.
Destroying many Northern communities, selling off everything to those who indirectly already owned it.
Social housing stock decimated to ensure home buyers were in no position to take industrial action.
Introducton of Poll Tax that ensured anyone living in a Labour controlled London borough paid crazy amounts, ours was 600 per person annually. Those in places like Westminster paid nothing or in some cases 40 quid a year.
Deregulation of the stock Market that brought about the vile yuppie behaviour. I witnessed that first hand and it was sickening to see.

So yes i'm somewhat suspicious of Tories and the current PM is just the latest incarnation of that evil woman.

No I haven't visited those countries recently, but have this year been to the Netherlands, France, Germany and Belgium.
All of which have a far less unpleasant atmosphere than that which prevails in the UK at the moment.

You and I are obviously poles apart in our political leanings.
I respect your views and the reasoning was fair too, much better than the go and live there rubbish.
Totally disagree, but hey ho, that's life and we are all entitled to our views
So do you think that 'honest' Jim Callaghan should have been allowed to continue, or perhaps Michael Foot?
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  #198  
Old 6th October 2019
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Re: Boris Gate

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Originally Posted by Naughty Nigel View Post
So do you think that 'honest' Jim Callaghan should have been allowed to continue, or perhaps Michael Foot?
I preferred the policies of Foot over Thatcher as I do Corbyn over Johnson
Maybe I am just left wing or is that not allowed these days?
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  #199  
Old 6th October 2019
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Re: Boris Gate

As I'm sure I've said on here before, nobody in their right mind would want to be a politician these days - QED! I really don't know what the answer is but we cannot and should not continue with the present madness, Boris and his mates are hellbent on a no-deal Brexit and the EU are, rather than being awkward and uncompromising, possibly just trying to stop us committing national suicide. There are mutterings in the media that Her Maj could summarily dismiss Johnson instead of signing his latest proroguation attempt, perhaps that would be the best outcome.

Meanwhile Rory Stewart has seen the light and has some astute observations :

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...t-was-too-late
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  #200  
Old 6th October 2019
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Re: Boris Gate

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I preferred the policies of Foot over Thatcher as I do Corbyn over Johnson
Maybe I am just left wing or is that not allowed these days?
As far as this forum goes, anything to the right of Comrade Corbyn and his Trotskyite friends seems to be deeply unfashionable nowadays.

It is interesting that Tony Blair, a Labour Prime Minister, was guided more by Margaret Thatcher than by any of the 'Loony Left'. He also continued Margaret Thatcher's privatisation process so it couldn't have been all bad, could it?
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  #201  
Old 6th October 2019
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Re: Boris Gate

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Originally Posted by Otto View Post
There are mutterings in the media that Her Maj could summarily dismiss Johnson instead of signing his latest proroguation attempt, perhaps that would be the best outcome.

Meanwhile Rory Stewart has seen the light and has some astute observations :

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...t-was-too-late
I thought parliament had to be prorogued nine days before the Queen's Speech anyway. This was mentioned on the BBC News a day or two ago, but I might have got it wrong.

In any case, can a Monarch still dismiss a serving Prime Minister in our parliamentary democracy? While it seems an attractive proposition I would have thought that if dismissal were possible it would have happened long before now.
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  #202  
Old 6th October 2019
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Re: Boris Gate

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Originally Posted by Naughty Nigel View Post
I thought parliament had to be prorogued nine days before the Queen's Speech anyway. This was mentioned on the BBC News a day or two ago, but I might have got it wrong.

In any case, can a Monarch still dismiss a serving Prime Minister in our parliamentary democracy? While it seems an attractive proposition I would have thought that if dismissal were possible it would have happened long before now.
There's a fairly comprehensive explanation of the current situation HERE on The Institute For Government's web site.

My personal concern, and that of many others, is that since there is likely to be an election in the near future, The Queen will effectively be giving a party political broadcast.
Normally The Queen's Speech would be for a sitting government to set out its proposed future plans and proceedings.
I personally find it unacceptable for any government to seek to put our Monarch in this overtly political position, immediately prior to an expected election.

As regards your latter point, opinion seems to be divided, but there's a good exploration in the Financial Times HERE, but I'm not sure if it will hide behind a paywall. If you can' t read that link, there's always The Grauniad amongst others. It may be possible to see through the paywall by This Google Search; look for the FT link, 2/3 way down the first page when I posted this; it took me straight to the article.

Whether pro or anti monarchy, THIS may also be worth a read. Particularly the last paragraph;
"What Her Majesty cannot do is vote. Nor can she express any shading of political opinion in public. The Queen cannot sit in the House of Commons, although the building is royal property. She addresses the opening session of each Parliament, but she cannot write her own speech."
It strikes me that our Monarch has recently been put in a difficult position, and is likely to be again, when called upon to read the next speech (aka Boris' Party Political Broadcast)
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  #203  
Old 7th October 2019
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Re: Boris Gate

Some may find this article from Aljazeera an interesting point of view.....

https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/op...073201364.html


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  #204  
Old 7th October 2019
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Re: Boris Gate

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Originally Posted by Jax View Post
Some may find this article from Aljazeera an interesting point of view.....

https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/op...073201364.html


Jax
That is a very interesting article indeed, obviously written from an outsiders' point of view but with an anti-Western slant.

Reading a recent article by Sydney Williams on 'The End of Classical Liberalism' he says that "Anarchy, war and despotism are the natural states of man, not freedom, democracy and classical liberalism. Thomas Sowell was more direct when he declared “liberalism is totalitarianism with a human face.

We have certainly seen plenty of that over the past three years and more.

"Totalitarianism represents the other extreme. In harsh, dictatorial nations blemishes are obvious. But in a state where, over time, one is seduced by offerings of free services, like food stamps, help with housing, health and college, life can be comfortable. All that is asked in return is allegiance to a political party. Beware apathy, warned Baron de Montesquieu: “The tyranny of a prince in an oligarchy is not so dangerous to the public welfare as the apathy of a citizen in a democracy.


Williams goes on: "The best antidote to tyranny is education, which is why citizens should be concerned by the attack on meritocratic public schools...."

Now, where did I hear that public schools were to be dismantled recently? And why would the politicians concerned want to destroy a highly successful education system in the name of political ideology?

Be afraid; be very afraid!
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  #205  
Old 7th October 2019
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Re: Boris Gate

Liberalism has its own history and its own tradition. Socialism has its formulas and its own aims. Socialism seeks to pull down wealth; Liberalism seeks to raise up poverty. Socialism would destroy private property; Liberalism would preserve private interests in the only way in which they can be safely and justly preserved, namely, by reconciling them with public right. Socialism would kill enterprise; Liberalism would rescue enterprise from the trammels of privilege and preference. Socialism assails the pre-eminence of the individual; Liberalism seeks, and shall seek more in the future, to build up a minimum standard for the mass. Socialism exalts the rule; Liberalism exalts the man. Socialism attacks capital; Liberalism attacks monopoly.

― Winston S. Churchill, 4 May 1908.

"Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views."

William F. Buckley, Jr.

So where did it all go wrong?
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  #206  
Old 7th October 2019
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Re: Boris Gate

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Originally Posted by Otto View Post
As I'm sure I've said on here before, nobody in their right mind would want to be a politician these days - QED! I really don't know what the answer is but we cannot and should not continue with the present madness, Boris and his mates are hellbent on a no-deal Brexit and the EU are, rather than being awkward and uncompromising, possibly just trying to stop us committing national suicide. There are mutterings in the media that Her Maj could summarily dismiss Johnson instead of signing his latest proroguation attempt, perhaps that would be the best outcome.

Meanwhile Rory Stewart has seen the light and has some astute observations :

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...t-was-too-late
I must say that if I had been able to vote in the Tory leadership ballot, Rory Stewart would have got my vote. He was the only one who wanted to right some of the wrongs that the less well off have had too put up with over the last few years.
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  #207  
Old 7th October 2019
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Re: Boris Gate

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I must say that if I had been able to vote in the Tory leadership ballot, Rory Stewart would have got my vote. He was the only one who wanted to right some of the wrongs that the less well off have had too put up with over the last few years.
I particularly liked the following:

"Middle-aged men are not famous for their ability to listen. But with politicians it’s far more extreme. Colleagues who have been in politics too long tell me they find their curiosity begins to wither and they start to talk far more than they listen. And with a dozen engagements on different issues a day, and two hours on Twitter, they can develop a form of attention deficit – unable to concentrate and think freshly or in depth. Instead, they are encouraged to recite messages which the party professionals think voters want to hear – messages which may sound radical but which are in fact designed to be as safe as possible. Instead of a nutritious loaf, packed with organic content, they are encouraged to serve a tasteless, unhealthy white wonder-bread in a dazzling package called “Tory austerity” or “Strong and stable”."
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  #208  
Old 7th October 2019
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Graham_of_Rainham Graham_of_Rainham is offline
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Re: Boris Gate

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Originally Posted by Naughty Nigel View Post
I particularly liked the following:

"Middle-aged men are not famous for their ability to listen. But with politicians it’s far more extreme. Colleagues who have been in politics too long tell me they find their curiosity begins to wither and they start to talk far more than they listen. And with a dozen engagements on different issues a day, and two hours on Twitter, they can develop a form of attention deficit – unable to concentrate and think freshly or in depth. Instead, they are encouraged to recite messages which the party professionals think voters want to hear – messages which may sound radical but which are in fact designed to be as safe as possible. Instead of a nutritious loaf, packed with organic content, they are encouraged to serve a tasteless, unhealthy white wonder-bread in a dazzling package called “Tory austerity” or “Strong and stable”."
Absolutely right! They get stuck in “transmission” mode as they have clearly no capability for considered thinking.

I was taught, and required, to understand what people were saying and only then make myself understood. This came from “the seven habits of highly effective people” by Steven Covey.

When was the last time any politician actually had the slightest interest in anything other than their own self interest or that of their paymasters?

Boris is, and always has been, the prime example of this.
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  #209  
Old 7th October 2019
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Re: Boris Gate

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Originally Posted by Graham_of_Rainham View Post
Absolutely right! They get stuck in “transmission” mode as they have clearly no capability for considered thinking.

I was taught, and required, to understand what people were saying and only then make myself understood. This came from “the seven habits of highly effective people” by Steven Covey.

When was the last time any politician actually had the slightest interest in anything other than their own self interest or that of their paymasters?

Boris is, and always has been, the prime example of this.
But in the interests of neutrality we should state that Boris is by no means alone in this.

Right now it seems to me that we have two party leaders who are equally despised by the majority of their MP's but who refuse to take the hint.
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  #210  
Old 7th October 2019
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Re: Boris Gate

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...
Right now it seems to me that we have two party leaders who are equally despised by the majority of their MP's but who refuse to take the hint.
I have written in several places, that choosing between the two current “leaders”, is akin to deciding if you have to suffer constipation or diarrhoea...
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