Olympus UK E-System User Group
Olympus UK E-System User Group

Join our unique resource for Olympus Four Thirds E-System DSLR and Pen and OM-D Micro Four Thirds photographers. Show your images via our free e-group photo gallery. Please read the e-group.uk.net forum terms and conditions before posting for the first time. Above all, welcome!


Go Back   Olympus UK E-System User Group > Site news and information > Tutorials, Informative & Classic threads

Tutorials, Informative & Classic threads A new e-Group area for all the wonderful tutorials and helpful threads put on here by our members. Tutorials on using software, camera hardware - and feel free to request a tutorial if you need assistance!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 19th July 2015
Dave in Wales's Avatar
Dave in Wales Dave in Wales is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: West Wales
Posts: 1,088
Thanks: 60
Thanked 149 Times in 122 Posts
Likes: 136
Liked 661 Times in 234 Posts
Macro..Sacrifice quality for working distance?

Should I sacrifice quality for working distance, what say you?

I favour IQ over ED.

I have a Panny 60mm macro and a Panny 75-300 with extension tubes.

The working distance for the 60mm (end of hood to subject) to get a butterfly to nearly fill the frame is 7".

For the 75-300mm at the 300 end, the WD is 39"-54"... yes I know, it's a dream.

With the 300 + tubes I get many more shots but of reduced quality.

60mm....100% crop of OOC JPG.
P7190539-100%-60mm by Dave in Wales, on Flickr

300mm + tubes..100% crop of OOC JPG.
P7190542-100%-300mm+ET by Dave in Wales, on Flickr
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 19th July 2015
rosco rosco is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: County Durham
Posts: 151
Thanks: 23
Thanked 21 Times in 16 Posts
Likes: 14
Liked 23 Times in 13 Posts
Re: Macro..Sacrifice quality for working distance?

I have the Olympus 60mm macro and I tried various combinations with extension tubes.I was never satisfied with the results.I bought a sigma 150 macro,it has the reach,very good image quality.Autofocus can be slow but the lens has a focus ring,3 position focus limiter if you want to speed things up.This is my lens of choice for dragonfly/butterfly photography.The hardest part is finding one.

P5300057 by Keith Ross, on Flickr
Reply With Quote
The Following Users Liked This Post:
Minniesmum (5th January 2016), raymondo (22nd July 2015)
  #3  
Old 19th July 2015
Graham_of_Rainham's Avatar
Graham_of_Rainham Graham_of_Rainham is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Rainham
Posts: 8,101
Thanks: 642
Thanked 939 Times in 727 Posts
Likes: 2,263
Liked 1,580 Times in 910 Posts
Re: Macro..Sacrifice quality for working distance?

I favor IQ over most things. I do however find the extra working distance to be of value for some subjects and where the lighting requires it.

__________________
Graham

We often repeat the mistakes we most enjoy...
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 19th July 2015
Ross the fiddler's Avatar
Ross the fiddler Ross the fiddler is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Blue Mtns, NSW Australia
Posts: 13,945
Thanks: 2,064
Thanked 1,311 Times in 1,026 Posts
Likes: 5,359
Liked 2,070 Times in 1,122 Posts
Re: Macro..Sacrifice quality for working distance?

I prefer IQ first too. I already had the Sigma 150 macro lens & later added the Oly 60mm macro. I too have tried extension tubes with that (Oly 60mm) & other lenses with less success, but the EX25 (4/3's extension tube) with the Sigma 150 macro lens works well though (as would a M4/3's ext tube set with that lens, I would think).
__________________
Ross
I fiddle with violins (when I'm not fiddling with a camera).
Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/ross-the-fiddler/
Cameras: OM-D E-M1 & Mk II, Olympus Stylus 1, OM-D E-M5.
Lenses: M.ZD12-40mm f2.8 PRO Lens, M.ZD40-150mm f2.8 PRO Lens, MC-14, MC-20, M.ZD12-50, M.ZD60 Macro, M.ZD75-300 Mk II, MMF-3, ZD14-54 II, Sigma 150mm F2.8 APO Macro DG HSM.
Flashes: FL36R X2, FL50R, FL50.
Software: Capture One Pro 10 (& Olympus Viewer 3).
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 20th July 2015
Petrochemist Petrochemist is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: N Essex
Posts: 727
Thanks: 36
Thanked 81 Times in 74 Posts
Likes: 212
Liked 126 Times in 92 Posts
Re: Macro..Sacrifice quality for working distance?

Whilst IQ is definitely important if you don't have enough working distance your subject may not remain to be photographed...
Once you have enough working distance for your stalking skills (or lighting for static subjects) more working distance is generally fairly irrelevant while more IQ is always good.
__________________
Mike
Compulsive photographic Dabbler.
Flickr
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 20th July 2015
tomphotofx's Avatar
tomphotofx tomphotofx is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Bexleyheath UK
Posts: 2,547
Thanks: 264
Thanked 545 Times in 481 Posts
Likes: 410
Liked 295 Times in 147 Posts
Re: Macro..Sacrifice quality for working distance?

IQ is everything and the Sigma 150mm is a beauty I was considering selling it a while ago but then decided it wasn't worth letting it go after all.

Tom
__________________
"Who is watching the Watchers, watching the Watchers watching us"

Its not what you see, it's the way that you see it"

Flickr http://www.flickr.com/photos/photofxstudios
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to tomphotofx For This Useful Post:
Wee man (22nd July 2015)
  #7  
Old 20th July 2015
Dave in Wales's Avatar
Dave in Wales Dave in Wales is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: West Wales
Posts: 1,088
Thanks: 60
Thanked 149 Times in 122 Posts
Likes: 136
Liked 661 Times in 234 Posts
Re: Macro..Sacrifice quality for working distance?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomphotofx View Post
IQ is everything and the Sigma 150mm is a beauty I was considering selling it a while ago but then decided it wasn't worth letting it go after all.

Tom
Just out of interest, what is the working distance, end of hood to subject, for say a mag of 1:2?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 20th July 2015
Harold Gough Harold Gough is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Reading UK
Posts: 5,750
Thanks: 58
Thanked 804 Times in 733 Posts
Likes: 40
Liked 3,188 Times in 1,718 Posts
Re: Macro..Sacrifice quality for working distance?

With my Kiron 105mm macro I have both. I can use a matched TC to increase working distance, with no visible loss of quality.

Harold
__________________
The body is willing but the mind is weak.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 21st July 2015
David Morison's Avatar
David Morison David Morison is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Fulbeck, Lincolnshire
Posts: 3,507
Thanks: 71
Thanked 588 Times in 472 Posts
Likes: 48
Liked 298 Times in 175 Posts
Re: Macro..Sacrifice quality for working distance?

Undoubtedly the 60mm is a superb lens IQ wise but the shorter working distance over a 150mm or even 300mm can be an issue in the field where you often have to get down and dirty for the smaller creatures. It is much easier to stealthily approach a wary insect on foot than doing a leopard crawl through the grass. There is the problem of reduced DoF when using longer lenses to be considered and DoF is more often than not the factor that makes or breaks a good macro shot. Personally I don't like the mechanism of focus limiting on the 60mm so I rarely use it - selling it on here soon!

David
__________________
PBase Galleries:-http://www.pbase.com/davidmorisonimages
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 21st July 2015
tomphotofx's Avatar
tomphotofx tomphotofx is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Bexleyheath UK
Posts: 2,547
Thanks: 264
Thanked 545 Times in 481 Posts
Likes: 410
Liked 295 Times in 147 Posts
Re: Macro..Sacrifice quality for working distance?

Dave in Wales from hood to subject at 1:2 is approx 10inches.

Tom
__________________
"Who is watching the Watchers, watching the Watchers watching us"

Its not what you see, it's the way that you see it"

Flickr http://www.flickr.com/photos/photofxstudios
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 21st July 2015
Dave in Wales's Avatar
Dave in Wales Dave in Wales is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: West Wales
Posts: 1,088
Thanks: 60
Thanked 149 Times in 122 Posts
Likes: 136
Liked 661 Times in 234 Posts
Re: Macro..Sacrifice quality for working distance?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomphotofx View Post
Dave in Wales from hood to subject at 1:2 is approx 10inches.

Tom
Many thanks Tom.

I expected it to be much more than that, don't ask me why.

When I use the Oly Ring Flash with the 60mm, the hood is not used, distance from RF to subject is approx. 5 inches at 1:2.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 21st July 2015
Ross the fiddler's Avatar
Ross the fiddler Ross the fiddler is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Blue Mtns, NSW Australia
Posts: 13,945
Thanks: 2,064
Thanked 1,311 Times in 1,026 Posts
Likes: 5,359
Liked 2,070 Times in 1,122 Posts
Re: Macro..Sacrifice quality for working distance?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave in Wales View Post
Many thanks Tom.

I expected it to be much more than that, don't ask me why.

When I use the Oly Ring Flash with the 60mm, the hood is not used, distance from RF to subject is approx. 5 inches at 1:2.
I decided to check for myself & can confirm the working distance from the lens hood on the Sigma 150 to be 25cm (10") at 1:2 & 13.5cm at 1:1. I have used it with a LED ring light for night focussing & with twin FL36R flashes (on the E30), but it gets shaky with all that weight if holding it high for spiders in their web at night. Click on the thumbs if you want to see it in full.


__________________
Ross
I fiddle with violins (when I'm not fiddling with a camera).
Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/ross-the-fiddler/
Cameras: OM-D E-M1 & Mk II, Olympus Stylus 1, OM-D E-M5.
Lenses: M.ZD12-40mm f2.8 PRO Lens, M.ZD40-150mm f2.8 PRO Lens, MC-14, MC-20, M.ZD12-50, M.ZD60 Macro, M.ZD75-300 Mk II, MMF-3, ZD14-54 II, Sigma 150mm F2.8 APO Macro DG HSM.
Flashes: FL36R X2, FL50R, FL50.
Software: Capture One Pro 10 (& Olympus Viewer 3).
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 21st July 2015
Dave in Wales's Avatar
Dave in Wales Dave in Wales is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: West Wales
Posts: 1,088
Thanks: 60
Thanked 149 Times in 122 Posts
Likes: 136
Liked 661 Times in 234 Posts
Re: Macro..Sacrifice quality for working distance?

I've come to a decision

Slightly inferior initial RAW IQ and high IQ jpg's for display, how....LR6 sharpening.

So it's the 75-300 + 26mm Kenko extension tubes, with the E-M1 onboard flash as fill in.

I've always got the 60mm + RF-11 ring flash to fall back on.

A working distance of 33" for a magnification of 1:3 is just too good to miss.

This is with the 75-300 + tubes and is cropped to about 25% of the frame.

P6180919-Edit4 by Dave in Wales, on Flickr
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Dave in Wales For This Useful Post:
The Following Users Liked This Post:
Kiwi Paul (28th July 2015), Ross the fiddler (21st July 2015)
  #14  
Old 21st July 2015
Ross the fiddler's Avatar
Ross the fiddler Ross the fiddler is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Blue Mtns, NSW Australia
Posts: 13,945
Thanks: 2,064
Thanked 1,311 Times in 1,026 Posts
Likes: 5,359
Liked 2,070 Times in 1,122 Posts
Re: Macro..Sacrifice quality for working distance?

That certainly looks nice!
__________________
Ross
I fiddle with violins (when I'm not fiddling with a camera).
Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/ross-the-fiddler/
Cameras: OM-D E-M1 & Mk II, Olympus Stylus 1, OM-D E-M5.
Lenses: M.ZD12-40mm f2.8 PRO Lens, M.ZD40-150mm f2.8 PRO Lens, MC-14, MC-20, M.ZD12-50, M.ZD60 Macro, M.ZD75-300 Mk II, MMF-3, ZD14-54 II, Sigma 150mm F2.8 APO Macro DG HSM.
Flashes: FL36R X2, FL50R, FL50.
Software: Capture One Pro 10 (& Olympus Viewer 3).
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 21st July 2015
Ralph Harwood's Avatar
Ralph Harwood Ralph Harwood is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Wirral
Posts: 1,822
Thanks: 213
Thanked 294 Times in 274 Posts
Likes: 765
Liked 412 Times in 254 Posts
Re: Macro..Sacrifice quality for working distance?

Hi there Dave!

I could be wrong, but isn't the 75-300 supposed to start to soften towards the long end - I'm sure that people have advised to not use at the full extension unless necessary. Perhaps you would get even greater IQ if you limit it to 250mm?

Personally I would say that the sigma 150mm is the way to go if you can find one, although it is a big beast to get between flower stems compared to a 60mm Macro. The distance from the lens hood to subject isn't that huge for the focal length, but you can easily get another 80mm or so by removing the lens hood if your lighting is ok.

Cheers,

Ralph.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Ultimate Sacrifice Harold Gough The lounge 3 29th November 2014 02:05 PM
Focus distance of the 60mm macro at 2:1? Otto Standard zoom and mid range 9 6th September 2013 04:18 PM
9-18 mm and hyperfocal distance Pete_Murrell Wide angle 14 17th May 2012 02:47 PM
Hyperfocal Distance jdal Camera conference 19 25th April 2011 12:07 PM
Hyperfocal Distance knikki The lounge 8 14th May 2008 05:46 PM


All times are GMT. The time now is 08:13 AM.


The Write Technology Ltd, 2007-2019, All rights reservedAd Management plugin by RedTyger