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The lounge Relax, take a break from photo and camera talk - have a chat about something else for a change. Just keep it clean and polite!

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  #16  
Old 9th May 2019
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Re: European Leader of the Year

I agree with what you say John. Rather than tax everyone to stop them damaging the climate, the Government needs to get the public behind it and make a positive case for changing behavior. Vanity projects like HS2 need to be stopped and the money used to develop an infrastructure that supports a green lifestyle.

We seem to be being blamed by some for the industrial revolution and causing all this mess in the first place. I fear whatever we do the UK can't fix this all alone - might make us feel better but we account for a very small proportion of all the world carbon emissions, or plastic use, etc. That does not mean we shouldn't try.
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Old 9th May 2019
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Re: European Leader of the Year

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I agree with what you say John. Rather than tax everyone to stop them damaging the climate, the Government needs to get the public behind it and make a positive case for changing behavior. Vanity projects like HS2 need to be stopped and the money used to develop an infrastructure that supports a green lifestyle.

We seem to be being blamed by some for the industrial revolution and causing all this mess in the first place. I fear whatever we do the UK can't fix this all alone - might make us feel better but we account for a very small proportion of all the world carbon emissions, or plastic use, etc. That does not mean we shouldn't try.
Absolutely Dave. It's true that we can't do it alone but it's possible that we could have a major impact by setting the right example. There are potential economic benefits too, if we take the lead in developing new eco-friendly technologies. At least we have to hope.
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Old 9th May 2019
Keith-369 Keith-369 is offline
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Re: European Leader of the Year

But .... and this is just a thought .... if Britain went totally green tomorrow, just how much would it affect our planet?
We are such a small country in this great big world of ours and yet we seem to be the only ones who are going hell bent to solve the worlds problems on our own.
I'm not saying we should do nothing, of course, but it's going to take a lot more than just us to make any difference at all ...

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Old 9th May 2019
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Re: European Leader of the Year

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I suspect, if we are honest, that we are all more than a little hypocritical when it comes to combating climate change. We need to act fast but, equally important we need to learn exactly what it is we need to do and how we need to lead our lives. Even just a few years ago who would have thought owning a dog would damage the Planet? 40 years ago we believed that one of the greatest challenges of the future would be running out of fossil fuels and we never thought that we would have to abandon them for entirely different reasons. Sure, we had a nebulous concept of air pollution, but by switching from 4 star to unleaded petrol and Thatcher closing all the dark, satanic mills we thought we had that base covered.

But now we need to question everything. Do I really need the room light on to type this nonsense? is being on the computer to do this a good use of the electricity? But hey, I've just switched to a provider who supplies 100% renewable electricity so now I don't need to worry. Err, no - it all comes from the same grid so the power I use is no better or worse than my neighbour's. I've just got up to turn out that light; it's not much but it is a start.....
All very true John. Sadly most of our environmental efforts to date have either been kneejerk reactions to specific events or have focused on improving one particular aspect of the environment whilst ignoring the much greater cost of damage caused elsewhere.

Our own government's diktat that we should all switch to diesel cars to save the planet is one of the better known examples; however, it is less well known that the use of catalytic converters on petrol powered cars, mandated by the EU in 1993, not only increased the fuel consumption of those vehicles by about 25% but also resulted in a significant increase in the volume of CO2 pumped out into the atmosphere.

In truth we have been very successful in making our pollution cleaner, or simply moving that pollution somewhere where we don't see it, when we really need to find ways to avoid creating the pollution in the first place.

Making our manufactured goods last longer and not throwing away perfectly good machinery and electronics [just because we can] would be a good start.
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Old 9th May 2019
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Re: European Leader of the Year

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Originally Posted by Keith-369 View Post
But .... and this is just a thought .... if Britain went totally green tomorrow, just how much would it affect our planet?
We are such a small country in this great big world of ours and yet we seem to be the only ones who are going hell bent to solve the worlds problems on our own.
I'm not saying we should do nothing, of course, but it's going to take a lot more than just us to make any difference at all ...

Stands back and awaits the flack
We can and we should live a cleaner and greener lifestyle. We can argue that Britain's contribution to climate change is miniscule and insignificant but the fact is that Britons are collectively some of the worst offenders in the world after the USA.

As a nation we are very innovative and resourceful so if we can bring new green technologies to market we will create a whole new world of export opportunities - until the bean counters give it to China.
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Old 9th May 2019
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Re: European Leader of the Year

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As a nation we are very innovative and resourceful so if we can bring new green technologies to market we will create a whole new world of export opportunities - until the bean counters give it to China.
We may indeed be innovative and resourceful but with very little manufacturing industry remaining we will prob have to have any inventions produced in Asia. The Chinese, Indians, Japanese or whoever will be very grateful for the business, offer a decent price then simply copy the product and sell it cheaper themselves.

Back to the drawing board !

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Old 9th May 2019
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Re: European Leader of the Year

My vote goes to Guy Verhofstadt. Did you see him in action last night on BBC4, 'Brexit behind closed doors'. As an aside, I wonder if we're co-funding his wine bill, not the stuff he bottles himself, but the amount he consumes on 'EU company' business?

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/902487...u-documentary/
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Old 9th May 2019
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Re: European Leader of the Year

I must say I am somewhat cheered by the way a lot of people have picked up now on the need to tackle it urgently, and the amount of agreement (including on this thread ).

Green-wash is to be avoided, but the UK technology and research sectors do have a lot of relevant Intellectual Property that can earn us a good national living if only the current ancient and fossil-fuel invested administration will let us. We can lead internationally by example, and make money from it to pay our pensions, the NHS etc.

There is a huge amount of inertia though.

Anyone see Rupert Read's discussion when he was set against both the interviewer and that crusty old bloke in a suit? The whole theme was about how Extinction Rebellion had 'brought London to a grinding halt' and his very reasonably-put points about the impending catastrophe and how the cube root of f-all had been achieved over 20+ years of hot air, were basically dismissed:


I had multiple meetings in central London on 3 days during the ER action, and criss-crossed the city on public transport with absolutely no impact on my travels whatsoever. Yes, a relatively few people were affected, and a very few quite seriously for a few days, but if you did a little research about where the disruption was the impact was zero, and the 'grinding halt' was just a propaganda-wash from the right wing press, who's readers lapped it up.

When the Thames Barrier gets breached then they'll know what a grinding halt is!
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  #24  
Old 9th May 2019
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Re: European Leader of the Year

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When the Thames Barrier gets breached then they'll know what a grinding halt is!
I have often thought that a massive hydro-electric dam across the Thames estuary would solve a lot of our problems, and would generate electricity too.
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Old 9th May 2019
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Re: European Leader of the Year

The cube root of 1 is 1, isn't it. For anyone being the unfortunate cube root, for instance missing an important job interview, the resulting impact could tend towards 1/0 !
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Old 9th May 2019
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Re: European Leader of the Year

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I have often thought that a massive hydro-electric dam across the Thames estuary would solve a lot of our problems, and would generate electricity too.
Weren't they going to try this in the Bristol Channel, until the Government pulled the plug on the finance?
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  #27  
Old 9th May 2019
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Re: European Leader of the Year

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Weren't they going to try this in the Bristol Channel, until the Government pulled the plug on the finance?
Yes, I think there were plans for a hydro-electric barrage to take advantage of the huge tides there. I don't know whether cost was the main factor in cancelling the project but I do know there were concerns about the likely environmental impact and problems of silting which are affecting a smaller project in South Wales.

My plan is for a massive dam across the Thames estuary, reaching from the Essex Wolds in the north to the North Downs in the south. After all, the southerners have planted enough of their wind turbines up here. The fact that it could generate large amounts of green electricity make it even better.
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Old 9th May 2019
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Re: European Leader of the Year

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Weren't they going to try this in the Bristol Channel, until the Government pulled the plug on the finance?
What effect would it have on the environment, the ecosystem and the food chain. Has it been evaluated, and what would happen if it were replicated word-wide. Even playing with surface air currents must have an impact, especially if wind farms were to cover 3/4 of the earth surface, as it would need to be (read on).
I think it was Prof Brian Cox who said we cannot build enough wind, wave and hydro energy conversion systems to meet the energy needs of the burgeoning human race. Nuclear fusion is where we should be investing research.
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Old 9th May 2019
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Re: European Leader of the Year

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What effect would it have on the environment, the ecosystem and the food chain. Has it been evaluated, and what would happen if it were replicated word-wide. Even playing with surface air currents must have an impact, especially if wind farms were to cover 3/4 of the earth surface, as it would need to be (read on).
I think it was Prof Brian Cox who said we cannot build enough wind, wave and hydro energy conversion systems to meet the energy needs of the burgeoning human race. Nuclear fusion is where we should be investing research.
This is the frightening thing, we don't yet fully understand what unforeseen and unwanted effects may be caused by our activities to resolve the situation. We're on a very steep learning curve!
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Old 9th May 2019
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Re: European Leader of the Year

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Originally Posted by Ricoh View Post
What effect would it have on the environment, the ecosystem and the food chain. Has it been evaluated, and what would happen if it were replicated word-wide. Even playing with surface air currents must have an impact, especially if wind farms were to cover 3/4 of the earth surface, as it would need to be (read on).
I think it was Prof Brian Cox who said we cannot build enough wind, wave and hydro energy conversion systems to meet the energy needs of the burgeoning human race. Nuclear fusion is where we should be investing research.
I seem to recall that there were extensive studies on the Severn Tidal Power project. There were serious downsides in many ways, including to marine life, wetlands, and much more. There was a big government report that went through the issues in some detail. Amongst other problems, the study identified:

Quote:
• the scale and impact of a scheme would be unprecedented in an environmentally
designated area, and there is significant uncertainty on how the regulatory framework
would apply to it. The study has considered ways in which to reduce impacts on the
natural environment and also how to provide compensation for remaining impacts on
designated features. It is clear that the compensation requirement would be very
challenging, however defined, and require land change within the Severn estuary and
probably outside it also;

• a scheme would produce clearer, calmer waters but the extreme tidal nature of the
Severn estuary would be fundamentally altered. This means that some habitats
including saltmarsh and mudflat would be reduced in area, potentially reducing bird
populations of up to 30 species;

• fish are likely to be severely affected with local extinctions and population collapses
predicted for designated fish, including Atlantic salmon and twaite shad. This could
mean the loss of twaite shad as a breeding species in the UK as 3 of the 4 rivers where
it breeds run out into the Severn estuary;
You can find the full government report here:

https://assets.publishing.service.go...t_-_15_Oct.pdf

As to nuclear fusion - it's had billions spent on it. For 50 years usable fusion power has been 10 years away - and it still is .
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