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Old 18th March 2011
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Exclamation An Evening with Olympus - 24th March

Mark Thackara from Olympus UK, will be visiting us to present:

"The Future is Small and Mirrorless"

He will talk though their compact system camera strategy, bring some products to talk about and include a chance to see the new XZ-1 fast lens compact.

We can then debate the pros and cons and see if we can come up with design ideas for our perfect camera.
He very much wants it to be a lively and two way evening, and invites us to feel free to chip in with our thoughts.

Places are limited and by invitation only. Please PM or e-mail me if you are interested in attending this event.

The event will take place in Barking, on the evening of the 24th of March.
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Old 18th March 2011
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Re: An Evening with Olympus - 24th March

Graham

Would loved to have come to this as it's just down the road from me but alas cannot make that date.
I know we can rely on you to ask the relavent questions.

Please give us an update afterwards.
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Old 18th March 2011
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Re: An Evening with Olympus - 24th March

Mirrorless I don't care about as long as the response and viewfinder are up to it

Small will be a never for me - I can't even use the 620 comfortably with my hands

The wife loves it, but I find anything smaller than the 5xx series a non starter

it's not just about technology they are fotrgetting ergonomics

Regards
Andy
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Old 18th March 2011
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Re: An Evening with Olympus - 24th March

Quote:
Originally Posted by shenstone View Post
Small will be a never for me - I can't even use the 620 comfortably with my hands

The wife loves it, but I find anything smaller than the 5xx series a non starter

it's not just about technology they are fotrgetting ergonomics

Regards
Andy
I think that's the real message to get across - some people like large bodies, and some like medium ones, as well as the obvious advantages of the Pen sizes. ..and yes, we do still want a proper viewfinder!

Sounds like a good evening though and if I was a lot closer I'd be tempted to come!
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Old 18th March 2011
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Re: An Evening with Olympus - 24th March

Quote:
Originally Posted by cinders View Post
I think that's the real message to get across - some people like large bodies, and some like medium ones, as well as the obvious advantages of the Pen sizes. ..and yes, we do still want a proper viewfinder!

Sounds like a good evening though and if I was a lot closer I'd be tempted to come!
I agree cinders, though from the title it sounds like it's already decided how the evening will go.

It will be interesting to see if Graham can get that point across.

But from what I have heard from people that have worked in Japan the culture is such that if the top man makes a decision no one under him will tell him he is wrong, which would explain why Olympus does not seem to be listening.
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Old 18th March 2011
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Re: An Evening with Olympus - 24th March

Quote:
Originally Posted by OlyPaul View Post
<snip>But from what I have heard from people that have worked in Japan the culture is such that if the top man makes a decision no one under him will tell him he is wrong, which would explain why Olympus does not seem to be listening.
One of The "Top Men" is English http://www.olympus-global.com/en/new...0210corpe.html

My experience is that they listen very carefully and are highly respectful of good ideas, no matter where they come from.
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Old 18th March 2011
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Re: An Evening with Olympus - 24th March

I'm certainly interested, will just have to ask my wife's permission when she gets home (guess who wears the trousers in our house?)

There's probably no point in presenting the case to continue 4/3 DSLRs with optical finders but it's an excellent opportunity to press for a full size (think E-5) mirrorless pro body which will balance better with the larger SHG lenses. I'm sure that option is still on the table for debate.

Graham, will send you a PM if I can make it.
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Old 20th March 2011
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Re: An Evening with Olympus - 24th March

Well I would have been very interested in a presentation from Olympus however if the title is indeed:

"The Future is Small and Mirrorless"

It's already left me cold. I personally prefer an SLR and so far haven't found a really good live view image that can be zoomed in to provide a sharp enough image to achieve crtitical focus (except on a Canon maybe...)

But that's not the point: every other major manufacturer will continue to make an SLR with an optical viewfinder for the forseeable future so Olympus may be leaving themselves out on a limb here.

Personally I quite like the idea of a PEN as a second camera being able to use qulaity four-thirds lenses via an adapter but I just can't see many photographers who are used to an optical viewfinder on an SLR wanting to give this "feature" up.

Sorry about the negativity but the theme's title just winds me up...

Just my 02 cents worth as they say in the USA...

Malc
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Old 20th March 2011
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Re: An Evening with Olympus - 24th March

Quote:
Originally Posted by malc350 View Post
Well I would have been very interested in a presentation from Olympus however if the title is indeed:

"The Future is Small and Mirrorless"

It's already left me cold. I personally prefer an SLR and so far haven't found a really good live view image that can be zoomed in to provide a sharp enough image to achieve crtitical focus (except on a Canon maybe...)

But that's not the point: every other major manufacturer will continue to make an SLR with an optical viewfinder for the forseeable future so Olympus may be leaving themselves out on a limb here.

Personally I quite like the idea of a PEN as a second camera being able to use qulaity four-thirds lenses via an adapter but I just can't see many photographers who are used to an optical viewfinder on an SLR wanting to give this "feature" up.

Sorry about the negativity but the theme's title just winds me up...

Just my 02 cents worth as they say in the USA...

Malc
Hi Malc,

I appreciate your sentiments but sometimes you can't stop progress. I remember not many years ago vowing never to use digital. I simply couldn't envisage not using film. I haven't shot a roll of film for two years now.

You say, "every other major manufacturer will continue to make an SLR with an optical viewfinder for the forseeable future" but how long is the forseeable future? Sony already have an SLR with EVF rather than optical finder, so a big clue there. Samsung, do they still make an SLR? Panasonic don't. It's surely no coincidence that these are all electronics giants.

Maybe Olympus are just ahead of the game rather than out on a limb. In the long term it might be Canon and Nikon struggling to survive unless they catch up quickly. I think they will catch up and probably quicker than we think.

Like it or not the Future almost certainly is Small and Mirrorless. I'm very much looking forward to Mark's presentation.
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Old 20th March 2011
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Re: An Evening with Olympus - 24th March

I am not against mirrorless, it seems a concept that must eventually be in all our interests. When it can offer what a DSLR can offer then it may be time for me to change. But SMALL! Stick a Pen on my ED 300mm with TC and you would get a totally out of balance outfit that would not be user-friendly for the roving, hand held type of photography I do. So progress is good and Olympus are the ones to lead it - as long it's in the right direction and incorporates choice for the many different styles of photography undertaken by us all.

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Old 20th March 2011
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Well I guess that's what a forum is for!

To debate different viewpoints. Indeed Olympus have been ahead of the game in many ways (quick menu, sensor cleaning, IS in body, live view) and these features have been adopted by the majors but using live view all the time changes the way of using a camera that many photographers have gotten used to over the years.

I too was "against digital" at first but it was clear that film was capable of higher quality results. It has taken quite afew years for digital to emerge as a real winner. I now think that my poor old OM4Ti can't approach what a budget digital SLR with a decent lens can achieve (still keeping it though!)

Malc
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Old 20th March 2011
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Re: An Evening with Olympus - 24th March

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Morison View Post
I am not against mirrorless, it seems a concept that must eventually be in all our interests. When it can offer what a DSLR can offer then it may be time for me to change. But SMALL! Stick a Pen on my ED 300mm with TC and you would get a totally out of balance outfit that would not be user-friendly for the roving, hand held type of photography I do. So progress is good and Olympus are the ones to lead it - as long it's in the right direction and incorporates choice for the many different styles of photography undertaken by us all.

David
My thoughts exatly, David. Mirrorless, yes, and loads of small camera, great! In fact, if Olympus can shrink the current Pen format a little even better!

But, and this is a big but, we still need a large pro body of similar size and heft to an E-5, even if the style and design is radically different. If I get the opportunity that is one of the points I would like to impress upon Mark.
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Old 20th March 2011
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Re: An Evening with Olympus - 24th March

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuiko View Post
My thoughts exatly, David. Mirrorless, yes, and loads of small camera, great! In fact, if Olympus can shrink the current Pen format a little even better!

But, and this is a big but, we still need a large pro body of similar size and heft to an E-5, even if the style and design is radically different. If I get the opportunity that is one of the points I would like to impress upon Mark.
And that's the thing is it not John, that Olympus are putting all there eggs in one basket (once again).

When Canon and Nikon do produce mirrorless they will proberly go all out and will have a ready made range of full size (grown up) mirrorless dslr's from there currant range (so as not alienate existing customers) as well as more compact models. This will then leave Olympus playing in just the compact arena and out in the cold again, just like before the E-1.

Ian's post from DPN seems to think on the same lines.

Quote:


Canon can enter the compact system camera market any time they like and they will be successful, I feel. But at the moment all they will do is divert a lot of people away from their own DSLR models. I feel Nikon is in the same situation. Panasonic and Samsung have no such issues, while Olympus has already alienated a lot of its E-System DSLR faithful by being non-commital over the future of the E-System while they devote most of their resources to establish their Micro Four Thirds Pen range.

But as to the title of the thread - Are Canon out of touch with their users? Maybe not, as I think they are very aware of the potential of CSCs, but there is little incentive for them to join in just yet.

Inevitably, DSLRs will lose the mirror in favour of EVFs, sooner or later. It's just a matter of timing.

Ian
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Old 20th March 2011
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Could have been a contender...

...in the professional markets.

Olympus have such outstanding lenses with (it seems) none of the QC issues that other makes have, with exceptionally bright max apertures and amazing build quality and unrivalled weatherproofing.

What they haven't done (ok they have maybe got closer with the E-5) is built a body that rivals the Canikon pro bodies. I am sure many pros and serious amateur enthusiasts have marvelled at Olympus' amazing range of good glass but shook their heads at the bodies available.

Maybe they have painted themselves into a corner with the size of the sensor though this has brought about such amazing lenses as the 90-250 F2.8

I also hope they're not making the wrong decision again.

Does anyone remember when the OM-4Ti and OM-3Ti stood alone as ludicrously expensive follies in the 35mm world and Olympus concentrated on making weird things like the IS series of 35mm cameras (ho ho, they were funny oddities). Meanwhile they had brilliant lenses such as the 250 F2, 350 F2.8 that hardly sold due to their huge prices (in fact these lenses are still unattainable used now).

OlyPaul is right, Canon and Nikon could bring out a mirror-less (they already have pentamirrors) and viewfinder-less compact body in no time and with no sweat to them, while they also continue with their SLR bodies.

Of course it's good to be pioneering but to truly change a way of thinking takes a lot of time. It must have taken a generation or more to convince photographers that 35mm was a serious alternative to medium format (it isn't though really, even now, has anyone used 6x6 or 6x7 and compared it to 35mm which doesn't even compare but the medium format kit is too heavy to carry around). SLRs have been around for what (I'm guessing) 60 years or more?

Do you know I hate to say this but the other day I bought a D5000 for a cheap user (new from Jessops with warranty & 18-55vr and 55-200vr for £499 - it was irresistible at that money, people ask more than that for used examples on *bay) and I couldn't get over what a fabulous little camera it is. Before anyone says anything about an E-620 I had one but couldn't manually focus through that tunnel-like viewfinder.

In Olympus' world the wheels turn real slow over developing their flagship cameras: E-1, E-3, E-5. I do actually think the "other two" are making so many new models their lineups are getting confused though.

It is possible to take over a pro / serious enthusiast market: Canon all but had it over Nikon for years until recently when the D300/D3 series/ D700 brought about a real turn-around in Nikon's favour.

Olympus really could have been a force in the professional world - they were in the days of Bailey, Lichfield, Donovan...showing my age there.

Malc
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Old 20th March 2011
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Re: Could have been a contender...

If you want good ergonomics in a small body, try the Panasonic GH2. I really hope Olympus will produce something like that but with an even better EVF - and soon!
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