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Foto Fair Post your photos for friendly, non-critical feedback. This is the place to show pictures if you aren't yet ready for full-blooded critique, or simply want to share an interesting picture with other e-group visitors.

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  #1  
Old 17th May 2012
j.d j.d is offline
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Noisy Ribblehead

Hi all,

I thought I'd put this photo of Ribblehead Viaduct up and ask for comments on the noise. At ISO 320 I would expect a lot less. The camera was on a tripod but I forgot to set the ISO.

John.

1-E6062004.jpg

E620 with 14-45 lens.
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Old 17th May 2012
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Re: Noisy Ribblehead

Hi JD!

Hard to tell at this size - maybe it got resized automagically when you uploaded it. From a recent thread I think it does it if it is more than 800 pixels high. Could you try a crop that is less than that which includes some even tones - maybe span the hirozon about a third of the way on from the left so there is some blue sky, the hill (is it Ingleborough?) and a bit of viaduct. Then we should be able to see it at 100%.

Cheers ... John
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Old 17th May 2012
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Re: Noisy Ribblehead

Hi John,

I wouldn't say it was noisey, not at web resolution anyway but of course it might be more apparent in the full size image. It does seem a bit flat and lacking in contrast and you have certainly lost definition by using f22, which is well into the realm of causing diffraction. For this type of shot, at 14mm with nothing particularly close to the lens, f6.3 would have been ample to get sufficient DOF.

A couple of things to check:-

Did you have IS switched off? With the camera on a tripod IS should be off or it can actually degrade sharpness.

Do you have Auto Gradation switched on or off? It can help in certain situations but in others it seems to induce noise and personally I keep it switched off, preferring to make any exposure adjustments myself.
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Old 17th May 2012
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Re: Noisy Ribblehead

Thanks fellas,

I did have trouble uploading it, I'll try a crop (might take a few hours though ).

You're right - I'd left IS on. Gradation is set to 'auto'.

I'm aware that the photo generally isn't very good, I just wondered about the noise. If that's normal at ISO 320 then that's a massive disappointment for me.

Good point about F22 though.

John.
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Old 17th May 2012
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Re: Noisy Ribblehead



Is that what you meant, John?
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Old 17th May 2012
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Re: Noisy Ribblehead

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Originally Posted by j.d View Post
Thanks fellas,

I did have trouble uploading it, I'll try a crop (might take a few hours though ).

You're right - I'd left IS on. Gradation is set to 'auto'.

I'm aware that the photo generally isn't very good, I just wondered about the noise. If that's normal at ISO 320 then that's a massive disappointment for me.

Good point about F22 though.

John.
As I say, I cannot really see any noise at this resolution but I suspect the noise you can see is in the viaduct. I suspect that auto gradation has lightened the shadows in the viaduct, particularly under the arches, which has caused the noise. Try turning it off and see if it cures your noise problem. Fine tune your exposures using the histogram and where possible "expose to the right," i.e. use the brightest exposure possible without actually clipping the highlights, this will help prevent noise in the shadows.
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Re: Noisy Ribblehead

Yup. The shadowy bits of the viaduct look rather clumpy but the rest doesn't look too bad. But it is rather flat tonally and not very sharp. It could be rather underexposed, which will certainly make the shadows look noisy.

There is an odd-looking highlight to the top right of the crop - is it the sun poking out from behind a cloud? Or a reflection from it even though it's out of shot? If it is, that could explain the general flatness because you will get a lot of unwanted light bouncing around inside the lens, and it could also explain why exposure is a bit iffy.

Is there any sharpening going on? That can sometimes exaggerate any noise.

Ciao ... John
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Re: Noisy Ribblehead

Ah, I see in the meantime you've loaded a bigger crop, as suggested by the other John. Yes, that clearly shows the noise mainly where I expected and also on the hillside. I'm certain Auto Gradation is responsible, which also explains why the overall image looks a bit flat.
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Re: Noisy Ribblehead

Hmm, one thread, three Johns, two of whom are JP's. No scope for confusion then!

Just seen John's comment about the auto gradation, which makes a lot of sense. If the shadows under the viaduct have received very little exposure and the auto grad has brought them up, it's no surprise to see some noise there. Is that the area that you were worried about John D, or more generally?

John
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Re: Noisy Ribblehead

Ok, thanks. To turn Gradation off, is that where I set it to 'normal'? I'll try not to get dispirited just yet.

Oh yes, it is Ingleborough in the background. The walkers are on their way up Whernside, possibly on the Three Peaks Challenge.
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Re: Noisy Ribblehead

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bikie John View Post
Yup. The shadowy bits of the viaduct look rather clumpy but the rest doesn't look too bad. But it is rather flat tonally and not very sharp. It could be rather underexposed, which will certainly make the shadows look noisy.

There is an odd-looking highlight to the top right of the crop - is it the sun poking out from behind a cloud? Or a reflection from it even though it's out of shot? If it is, that could explain the general flatness because you will get a lot of unwanted light bouncing around inside the lens, and it could also explain why exposure is a bit iffy.

Is there any sharpening going on? That can sometimes exaggerate any noise.

Ciao ... John
There's a few odd highlights which I put down to water drops on the lens, not uncommon with our recent weather!
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Re: Noisy Ribblehead

Quote:
Originally Posted by j.d View Post
Ok, thanks. To turn Gradation off, is that where I set it to 'normal'? I'll try not to get dispirited just yet.

Oh yes, it is Ingleborough in the background. The walkers are on their way up Whernside, possibly on the Three Peaks Challenge.
Sorry, yes, set it to normal.
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Re: Noisy Ribblehead

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bikie John View Post
Hmm, one thread, three Johns, two of whom are JP's. No scope for confusion then!

John
To make thing even more confusing my middle initial is D!
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Re: Noisy Ribblehead

Yes, it was the shadows in the arches that were the cause of my grief. I hadn't sharpened anything, it was taken as a raw image and then exported without anything done to it.
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Old 17th May 2012
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Re: Noisy Ribblehead

Would you mind if I posted a version from your original shot?
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