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The lounge Relax, take a break from photo and camera talk - have a chat about something else for a change. Just keep it clean and polite!

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  #1  
Old 16th December 2007
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Confronted by referee when taking photo's today... let's discuss this and see...

Hi All

Here's possibly the start of an interesting discussion - this is what happened today.

My daughter Heather, plays for her local rugby team - a mixed team, and she can do so for another year/season after this present one. Now, the management of the rugby team all know me well, as my son - now 17 - used to be a long term player for the same club. He though has now stopped playing and has since taken up other things.

The club asked me earlier this season, if I would be their official photographer for any games they might require shots taken at - especially of course, for the U11's which is the team Heather plays for. I was flattered and gladly agreed. I now have been asked to prepare shots of all the teams in the club - each age group - what an opportunity eh!

So, as a parent not as a tog - part of the 'agreement' between players and parents means we also have to sign a form where one of the points covered permissions for our children to be photographed - which of course, my wife and I signed, as did all the kids parents who end up playing for the club. This is something ALL teams in the junior sections affiliated to the Welsh RFU are obliged to fill in just in case any images end up in the paper etc (cup finals, record number of points etc...).

Anyway, so far so good and have since attended many games, and have taken loads of shots - at both home and away games. At each game I always make an attempt to speak to the opposition coach, and also as many parents as I can, letting them know who I am, what I am doing, and where they can find any photo's taken after the game. I also very often get asked if I could take a 'team photo' for them at the end of the game - and indeed have sold many of these. No parent at any team has ever objected, and very often make a point of saying thanks for asking etc.

At todays game - the same thing happened - but in a slightly different manner. I approached the opposition team coach, introduced myself, shook hands and all was well. He had no problem with this, and asked me if I could come with him to talk to the parents, whom he proceeded to call around in a group. He introduced me and asked me to give my 30 second oratory! All the parents agreed, were grateful to have the opportunity to purchase shots of their kids and were more than happy for me to take pics. I gave many cards out, and we proceeded to get ready for the game.

Game kicks off, and I start clicking away - and all goes very well for the first 5 minutes. Then, as the play moved towards where I was stood, the referee stopped the game, and in front of all the crowd standing around, asked me if I had permission to take photographs! He was extremely officious to say the least, trying to command and be assertive to me in the same way he was commanding and asserting the game. I was quite quick to respond and answered... "Mr Referee, though I don't legally need your permission, neither do I legally need the permission of the parents, but yes, I have spoken to all the parents and I do have their permission". He responded... "I'll take your word for it".

What he didn't do though, was to ask the other (I counted 6) parents, from both sides, with P&S cameras who were also firing away and taking shots - with flash, and at least two other people were using Video Cameras to record parts of the game too. He did not ask them the same question he asked me.

I didn't say anything to him at the end of the game, as I was taking team shots of the opposition... but I certainly felt like so doing. He had no right to speak to me in the manner he did, and I also wonder what he would have done if I had said that I had not asked parents permission prior to the game. Could he have confiscated my camera...? asked me to leave...? asked me not to take pics...? what an idiot.

All the parents with kids in teams in the WRFU have to sign a form allowing photographs to be taken at their games - and even that aside, I don't have to ask permission, and anyone can take photo's - as indeed many people were.

What's your thoughts on this...?
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Old 16th December 2007
Bo_Nydahl Bo_Nydahl is offline
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Re: Confronted by referee when taking photo's today... let's discuss this and see...

In my view you did everything right and as you rightly pointed out you do not actually need the parents permission but you had it. Being an official in a situation like this is the only taste of power some people will ever get.
If I were you I would report him and lodge an official complaint about him particularly as he did not challenge any other people taking photographs. I think you forgot the golden rule here....paedophiles only use high quality cameras in some peoples small and twisted minds.
Well done for standing your ground.

Mike
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Old 16th December 2007
tiredandweary
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Angry Re: Confronted by referee when taking photo's today... let's discuss this and see...

As stated already, you don't need permission. I had a situation recently when taking photos in Birmingham city centre. Two community officers approached, and told me that:- (1) I was not allowed to use a tripod, and (2) that photography was not allowed on the canal waterways. I opened a thread in the Flickr Birmingham group, and received many replies. apparently COMMERCIAL photography is not allowed, but as you say DSLRs seem to worry those who wear high-vis jackets.
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Old 16th December 2007
Chillimonster
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Re: Confronted by referee when taking photo's today... let's discuss this and see...

Me being the type of person i am, plus looking a bit mean and scary (according to the wife), would have informed him, as you did that permission was not needed and to "go-away".

If he had a problem, he shold have seen you in private, but to publicly humiliate you, it was obviously a power trip.

chris
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Old 16th December 2007
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Invicta Invicta is offline
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Re: Confronted by referee when taking photo's today... let's discuss this and see...

LOL maybe the ref was upset that you didn't ask him as well as the teams.
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Old 16th December 2007
PeterD
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Re: Confronted by referee when taking photo's today... let's discuss this and see...

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Originally Posted by Invicta View Post
LOL maybe the ref was upset that you didn't ask him as well as the teams.
An interesting thought. Did you take an image of the referee? He might have been making a personal objection.

Kind regrds

PeterD
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Old 16th December 2007
j.baker j.baker is offline
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Re: Confronted by referee when taking photo's today... let's discuss this and see...

I was in a similar situation about two years ago. I used to like next door to a pub, and both my wife and I were on very good terms with the landlord. They used to have fancy dress events throughout the year. Christmas, New year eve, and the usual calendar events. Anyway, at most of these events I was asked if I could take some photos (as they knew that I had several cameras). Now I have a policy that if someone does not want their picture taken, I will not deliberately take it. If that person happens to be in the frame when I take someone else’s photo, it will would be purely accidental.

Well I was taking photos as usual, and someone approached me by saying that they would try to "Sue me" for taking their photo. This person had been as previous event, and had never objected. I politely informed the person that I had permission from the pub management to take photos. The person then asked what I would be doing with the photo. I informed them that they would be posted online, on the pubs website, and printed copies would be given to the pub. BTW I have never charged anyone for taking photos.

The person went mental. Shouting at me, threatening me. I tried to walk away from the situation, but the person followed me. Finally I managed to get away, and spoke to the pub management. They were happy with the way that I handled the situation, and still wanted more photos.

I carried on taking more photo, trying to make sure that the person was not in the frame. I was then approached again by this person, now saying that someone else did not want their picture taken. I say "Saying", it was more like shouting.

At this point, I decided to speak to this other person, and they said that they did not mind pictures being taken.

By this time, I was fed up of the aggravation, and spoke to the pub management informing them about the situation, and then went home.

Although I was asked to take more photographs at the pub for other events, I politely declined. The whole situation left me with a bitter feeling.

I now try to take lots of landscape and animal pictures. At least you know that they will not threaten you.

Sorry for the long post.
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Old 16th December 2007
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Re: Confronted by referee when taking photo's today... let's discuss this and see...

They are very over the top about people taking pics of kids - see all those warnings on school websites etc
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Old 16th December 2007
Scapula Memory
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Re: Confronted by referee when taking photo's today... let's discuss this and see...

Incredible really. A sign of very paranoid times. Do these people create the same amount of fuss when told they are captured on CCTV about 50 times a day? Seems not....

regards

John.
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Old 16th December 2007
j.baker j.baker is offline
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Re: Confronted by referee when taking photo's today... let's discuss this and see...

the person that made the most fuss was , allegedly, known to the police.
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Old 17th December 2007
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Ian Ian is offline
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Re: Confronted by referee when taking photo's today... let's discuss this and see...

Quote:
Originally Posted by tiredandweary View Post
As stated already, you don't need permission. I had a situation recently when taking photos in Birmingham city centre. Two community officers approached, and told me that:- (1) I was not allowed to use a tripod, and (2) that photography was not allowed on the canal waterways. I opened a thread in the Flickr Birmingham group, and received many replies. apparently COMMERCIAL photography is not allowed, but as you say DSLRs seem to worry those who wear high-vis jackets.
The tripod issue is a bit of a grey one - it can be justified as a potential hazard to the public. I'd accept this if the space was confined and the public were all bunched up in a crowd, but this is often not the case.

I'm not even sure 'commercial' photography is prohibited in reality. If it's a public space, then I don't see that any restrictions apply. Sometimes you will think you are on public land but it's actually open thoroughfare private land and so you may be at fault there.

There are plenty of stories where the police prevent you from taking photographs and then repent later, by which time it's too late, sadly.

Ian
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Old 17th December 2007
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Re: Confronted by referee when taking photo's today... let's discuss this and see...

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Originally Posted by PeterD View Post
An interesting thought. Did you take an image of the referee? He might have been making a personal objection.

Kind regrds

PeterD
I guess that as John had made great efforts to talk to everyone else, the ref felt left out

Ian
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Old 17th December 2007
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Re: Confronted by referee when taking photo's today... let's discuss this and see...

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Originally Posted by j.baker View Post
Although I was asked to take more photographs at the pub for other events, I politely declined. The whole situation left me with a bitter feeling..
How many pints of bitter were you left with John.

In all honesty getting out of there and not going back might very well be the best thing. One addition to this scenario which is bound to aggravate the situation is alchohol. More hassle than its worth.

regards

John.
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