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Old 1st June 2017
hruissen hruissen is offline
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Reasonably priced camera/lens

My son wants to start taking pictures more seriously than just using a smartphone. He now is looking for a mirrorless camera with a zoom lens and if he likes it, maybe buy some other lenses. He wants to take the camera when travelling for landscape photography, snapshots, a bit of macro, etc. Not too complicated (yet).

I was thinking of a camera like the EM10 (mark I) with a mid-range zoom lens (12-50mm). So if any of you has a good functioning camera or a good suggestion of what he should buy, please let me know.

Thanks
Henk
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Old 1st June 2017
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Graham_of_Rainham Graham_of_Rainham is offline
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Re: Reasonably priced camera/lens

As virtually all cameras can produce very good results, it is more about what suits the individual (ergonomically and budget).

This would be a good place to start, by getting hands on the system.

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Old 1st June 2017
Jim Ford Jim Ford is offline
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Re: Reasonably priced camera/lens

All mirrorless cameras seem overly complicated to me. Flash ROM is so cheap nowadays and has such a large capacity the camera manufacturers appear to feel obliged to fill it up with all the 'bells and whistles' that they can think of. I don't use (and can't remember!) all the built in functions of my obsolete E5.

Maybe your son would best be suited to an E1 to get started. There's an excellent example been recently advertised on this site.

Jim
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Old 1st June 2017
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Re: Reasonably priced camera/lens

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Originally Posted by Jim Ford View Post
All mirrorless cameras seem overly complicated to me. Flash ROM is so cheap nowadays and has such a large capacity the camera manufacturers appear to feel obliged to fill it up with all the 'bells and whistles' that they can think of. I don't use (and can't remember!) all the built in functions of my obsolete E5.

Maybe your son would best be suited to an E1 to get started. There's an excellent example been recently advertised on this site.

Jim
Jim - maybe sound logic, but a youngster is unlikely to be excited or motivated to use a 14 year old piece of technology. It'll appear stone-aged.

An E-M10 would be a fine choice IMHO.
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Old 1st June 2017
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Re: Reasonably priced camera/lens

I believe analogue to be the best training ground for younger photographers. Excellent film cameras complete with lens can be had for pocket money. And what he saves on the purchase price compared to a digital will fund commercial processing. I think it should be encouraged if not mandatory by act of parliament.
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Old 1st June 2017
JonSchick JonSchick is offline
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Re: Reasonably priced camera/lens

Erm as the seller of the excellent E-1 :-)..... I can confirm my daughter loved (loves) it and has used it for university graphic design portfolio.... but she's moved on to a non ILC now after a while with the E-1 because she can borrow dSLRs from uni. And believe it or not she's become more interested in my manual film SLR....we've got all the stuff to develop films at home so the E-1 feels positively modern!!
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Old 1st June 2017
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Re: Reasonably priced camera/lens

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Originally Posted by JonSchick View Post
...[My daughter has] become more interested in my manual film SLR....we've got all the stuff to develop films at home so the E-1 feels positively modern!!
It seems that many young photographers are more interested in analogue than they are with digital, and I can empathise. I'm getting far more keepers per roll of 36 than I was being a machine-gun-digital-camera-operator. Adding to this, there's a tangible output: a roll of developed film and a set of prints. No real need to digitise them (although I have the necessary equipment), the pictures are primarily for my entertainment, and I must say I love grain.
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Re: Reasonably priced camera/lens

Well, I've been doing photography since 1972 and have done more than my time with film. I also ran a few rolls of HP5 through my OM1 recently. I'd forgotten how frustrating film can be.

It might be fine for us experienced types to try to inflict "Analogue" photography on beginners in an attempt to make them learn the hard way, but unless the individual is very heavily committed it really is a recipe for failure IMHO.

I think the same argument applies to telling newbies to use prime lenses. With experience under the belt then primes make sense but a beginner needs something accessible to allow them to make images easily. With time the more subtle points will become apparent and they can branch out.

So, my recommendation is to start with a good but capable ILC. Fit it with a standard zoom lens and let them start with Auto mode. Once they are making images they like, add in the use of A and M modes and maybe look to a prime lens or two. Along the way introduce raw files and post processing. This latter point is a very important part of modern photography and is IMHO a much more useful thing to learn than shooting film.

So, my recommendation would be an E-M10 with ideally an f2.8 standard zoom, but if not then the Panasonic 14-42 mkii (fantastic IQ).
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Old 1st June 2017
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Re: Reasonably priced camera/lens

I agree with the sentiment that a film camera is a very, very specific niche tool. Yes, plenty of people like and enjoy it, but its hardly something I'd recommend to start off with.

That said, primes vs zooms. Yes, I agree that zooms are more flexible, but, the problem with m4/3 specifically is that slow zooms, and fast ones like the f/2.8 ones, they simply don't deliver the shallow depth of field that a lot of people find crucial for modern, interesting photography.

And while a slow zoom will get you better pictures than you can do with a smartphone, something like a Panasonic 20mm f/1.7 or an Olympus 45mm f/1.8 will get you pictures you simply cannot take with a smartphone. There is an instant wow effect, and you see the point of using a camera at all. Plus the tiny size of lenses have a certain hip factor to it.
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Old 2nd June 2017
hruissen hruissen is offline
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Re: Reasonably priced camera/lens

Hi all,
Thanks for all the input in this discussion. Really interesting but also a bit surprising as I was in fact looking for some offers for a second hand camera. Maybe my request was not very clear.
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Old 2nd June 2017
JonSchick JonSchick is offline
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Re: Reasonably priced camera/lens

Perhaps discuss my advertised E-1 with your son? Is the fact that it's basic and digitally decrepit a big handicap, or is the fact that it's sort of 'retro' and capable of surprisingly good image quality a draw in a funny sort of way? If he's into sport photography and rapidly moving subjects (or video) then definite no-go. But it's a rugged workhorse for travel, landscape, etc. Jon
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Old 2nd June 2017
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Re: Reasonably priced camera/lens

Hi Henk,

I have been reading your thread with interest, thanks to a recent acquisition of an E-M1 I have now have a nice clean EM-5 (mk1) and 12-50 f3.5-6.3 available. It comes complete with HLD-6 battery grip, 2 spare batteries charger etc and the included flash.

I am away with my new toy at the moment so can not send pictures or look up any details but please let me know if you are interested.

I am looking for offers at around 350 and will need to look into postage costs.

Regards,

Jason
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