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The lounge Relax, take a break from photo and camera talk - have a chat about something else for a change. Just keep it clean and polite!

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Old 23rd April 2019
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Re: Electric Vehicles Emit more CO2 than Diesel

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Originally Posted by MJ224 View Post
If you take into account oil exploration, refining, shipping, storage and local distribution. Fossil fuel has already racked up quite a massive CO2 footprint.

My little all electric car gets its energy from wind and sun, via Ecotricity, thus its CO2 footprint is small, as the cost of motoring (fuel-wise) shows.
For that matter so has the sustainable industry business. Wind turbines are responsible for a lot of CO2 emissions at the building and construction stages, (so called Grey Energy), whilst it has been claimed that solar panels require more energy to produce them than they will ever generate in service. I am not sure if that still holds true, but of course energy used and emissions created in China or India on our behalf don't count towards the UK's CO2 quota.

Edit: I would also suggest that the reason your electric car has low running (fuel) costs is that government has yet to find a way of applying road fuel duty on electricity used to charge electric cars. Enjoy it whilst you can because at some point the Chancellor will need to collect the money currently being lost to electric and hybrid vehicles.

But never mind cats, dogs and motor cars, I read an interesting article recently where it was claimed that the concrete, cement and construction industries were jointly responsible for significantly greater CO2 emissions than the global aviation industry!

Whatever the facts behind these stories it seems that we will all have to face some uncomfortable truths in the near future.
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Old 23rd April 2019
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Re: Electric Vehicles Emit more CO2 than Diesel

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I share your concerns in this regard. The fact that CO2 is generated at 40,000' must also be a factor, although I believe jet aircraft do help to burn methane in the earth's upper atmosphere which is around four times more powerful as a greenhouse gas than CO2.

That said, the fuel burnt per passenger mile by modern aircraft compares very favourably with private motor vehicles.

As far as I know there is little or no tax on aviation fuel; hence the reason it is dyed to prevent use in road vehicles. (I used to use Avgas 100LL in my racing bike. Avgas is coloured blue.)

For aviation fuel tax to be workable there would need to be consensus between governments otherwise airlines would simply route via countries where aviation fuel tax was lowest. This was one of the reasons for Shannon Airport in Southern Ireland becoming an important stopping off point for transatlantic flights in times of old. The Duty Free shop there was also one of the biggest rip-offs I have ever come across in my life. Oddly enough, everything is priced in $USD. Gullible or what?
Aviation fuel (passenger aircraft) is basically paraffin and won’t run a normal car anyway.
Talking of duty free shops, I always visit them when at LHR and chuckle at the price of the ‘discounted’ memory cards. Do people actually think they are saving money??

Perhaps we ought to look at stopping all motor sport and banning climate change conferences too.
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Old 23rd April 2019
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Re: Electric Vehicles Emit more CO2 than Diesel

The basic cause of CO2 is life. So reduce life, do not create so many humans that are going to reproduce and use cars etc.
Even an heir and a spare is prolific breeding and causing unneccessary numbers of humans - If you have more than one child you are the problem.
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Old 23rd April 2019
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Re: Electric Vehicles Emit more CO2 than Diesel

Yep, there are too many people. Virtually every problem the human race faces is down to over-population. Sure it would be better if cars lasted longer and people didn't throw perfectly good clothes away but then there would be more people out of work. Our way of life has become inherently unsustainable.
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Old 23rd April 2019
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Re: Electric Vehicles Emit more CO2 than Diesel

Agree, far too many people and the ones currently popping out in India and China are going to expect the sort of stuff that contributes to climate change. As it is the popular holiday destinations are getting swamped with the nouveau riche Chinese clutching their selfie sticks and flying annoying drones.
The Catholic Church in the West holds a lot of responsibility given its refusal to allow birth control.
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Old 23rd April 2019
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Re: Electric Vehicles Emit more CO2 than Diesel

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Yep, there are too many people. Virtually every problem the human race faces is down to over-population. Sure it would be better if cars lasted longer and people didn't throw perfectly good clothes away but then there would be more people out of work. Our way of life has become inherently unsustainable.
Governments and big business continue to plough ahead with automation in search of ever greater profits, putting people out of work as a matter of course, yet no one seems to have tackled the problem of where the spending money will come from once no one works and everyone is on benefits.
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Old 23rd April 2019
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Re: Electric Vehicles Emit more CO2 than Diesel

I take the report with a pinch of salt. If you source your electricity from a renewable supplier, for example. Also electric cars are inherently more efficient than conventional cars (40% or thereabouts). Also it's a German report and the Germans have a vested interest in diesel

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Old 23rd April 2019
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Re: Electric Vehicles Emit more CO2 than Diesel

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The basic cause of CO2 is life. So reduce life, do not create so many humans that are going to reproduce and use cars etc.
Even an heir and a spare is prolific breeding and causing unneccessary numbers of humans - If you have more than one child you are the problem.
I'm sure that makes members of the forum with more than one child feel so much better

Blaming worldwide over population is very simple obvious statement to make however, the real skill would be if you suggested a viable solution.

So what do you suggest ? Worldwide mandatory sterilisation of anyone of child bearing age for a period of years ? Do as the Chinese did and limit parents to one child ? ( A law which I understand has now been revoked ) We would all agree overpopulation is a problem and has been for many years but other than introducing draconian, inhuman laws something that would be virtually impossible to rectify.

For the record, I can state that in your eyes, I am not one of the "problems" having never had children despite us both wanting them so again, in your eyes, I am obviously a valued member of what you consider to be an ideal society.

Jax
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Old 23rd April 2019
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Re: Electric Vehicles Emit more CO2 than Diesel

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I'm sure that makes members of the forum with more than one child feel so much better

Blaming worldwide over population is very simple obvious statement to make however, the real skill would be if you suggested a viable solution.

So what do you suggest ? Worldwide mandatory sterilisation of anyone of child bearing age for a period of years ? Do as the Chinese did and limit parents to one child ? ( A law which I understand has now been revoked ) We would all agree overpopulation is a problem and has been for many years but other than introducing draconian, inhuman laws something that would be virtually impossible to rectify.

For the record, I can state that in your eyes, I am not one of the "problems" having never had children despite us both wanting them so again, in your eyes, I am obviously a valued member of what you consider to be an ideal society.

Jax
I have two children and I am not offended by Derek's observation.

Over population is a fact. How to address it is the challenge. But over-population is just one of many challenges. We all need to react to pollution, global warming and sustainability in general. It could be a positive challenge in the long run.

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Re: Electric Vehicles Emit more CO2 than Diesel

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Originally Posted by Jax View Post

Blaming worldwide over population is very simple obvious statement to make however, the real skill would be if you suggested a viable solution.

So what do you suggest ? Worldwide mandatory sterilisation of anyone of child bearing age for a period of years ? Do as the Chinese did and limit parents to one child ? ( A law which I understand has now been revoked ) We would all agree overpopulation is a problem and has been for many years but other than introducing draconian, inhuman laws something that would be virtually impossible to rectify.

For the record, I can state that in your eyes, I am not one of the "problems" having never had children despite us both wanting them so again, in your eyes, I am obviously a valued member of what you consider to be an ideal society.

Jax
Generally? Sort out proper contraception, see previous comments re: the Catholic Church

Locally? Stop paying feckless girls to have babies they so obviously can’t afford.
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Old 23rd April 2019
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Re: Electric Vehicles Emit more CO2 than Diesel

Folk, this discussion is starting to get into areas that can be personally upsetting. Just a reminder to be nice to each other.
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Old 23rd April 2019
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Re: Electric Vehicles Emit more CO2 than Diesel

It is because serious discussion involving upsetting discussion is not taking place that we are in the clag that we are in.
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Old 23rd April 2019
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Re: Electric Vehicles Emit more CO2 than Diesel

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It is because serious discussion involving upsetting discussion is not taking place that we are in the clag that we are in.
Agreed Derek but as past experience proves, serious discussion in the Lounge usually involves slightly heated comments between mature adults resulting in the thread being closed. Probably best to keep to topics that don't involve anything upsetting.

Jax
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Old 23rd April 2019
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Re: Electric Vehicles Emit more CO2 than Diesel

If we can't talk politics and we now can't talk about CO2 emissions then what is allowed in the lounge? Anything but real life seems to be the only answer
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Old 23rd April 2019
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Re: Electric Vehicles Emit more CO2 than Diesel

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If we can't talk politics and we now can't talk about CO2 emissions then what is allowed in the lounge? Anything but real life seems to be the only answer
As this is a "family oriented forum" there is always children's toys, baking, fashion, holidays, gardening, family outings, plenty to occupy discussion between like minded members. Anything that doesn't involve the use of "rich language" serious mature discussion, or upsetting topics between mature adults seems allowable

How's the weather where you are Dave ?

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