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The lounge Relax, take a break from photo and camera talk - have a chat about something else for a change. Just keep it clean and polite!

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Old 8th August 2014
sapper sapper is offline
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Simple really

The Middle East
No doubt you will find this invaluable.
A number of people are confused by what is going on in the Middle East?
Let me explain.
We support the Iraqi government in the fight against ISIS.
We donít like ISIS, but ISIS is supported by Saudi Arabia who we do like.
We donít like Assad in Syria and we support the fight against him, but ISIS is also fighting against him.
We donít like Iran, but Iran supports the Iraqi government in its fight against ISIS.
So some of our friends support our enemies.
Some enemies are now our friends and some of our enemies are fighting against our other enemies, who we want to lose.
We don't, however want our enemies who are fighting our enemies to win.
If the people we want to defeat are defeated, they could be replaced by people we like even less.
And all this was started by us invading a country to drive out terrorists; who were not actually there until we went in to drive them out.
It's quite simple, really.
Do you understand now?
I hope that clears everything up for you. I know it did for me.
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  #2  
Old 8th August 2014
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Re: Simple really

Quote:
Originally Posted by sapper View Post
The Middle East
No doubt you will find this invaluable.
A number of people are confused by what is going on in the Middle East?
Let me explain.
We support the Iraqi government in the fight against ISIS.
We don’t like ISIS, but ISIS is supported by Saudi Arabia who we do like.
We don’t like Assad in Syria and we support the fight against him, but ISIS is also fighting against him.
We don’t like Iran, but Iran supports the Iraqi government in its fight against ISIS.
So some of our friends support our enemies.
Some enemies are now our friends and some of our enemies are fighting against our other enemies, who we want to lose.
We don't, however want our enemies who are fighting our enemies to win.
If the people we want to defeat are defeated, they could be replaced by people we like even less.
And all this was started by us invading a country to drive out terrorists; who were not actually there until we went in to drive them out.
It's quite simple, really.
Do you understand now?
I hope that clears everything up for you. I know it did for me.
I think that sums it up as well as any other explanation I have heard.

Saddam Hussein was a despot who murdered his own people, but at least there was some kind of status quo in the region whilst he was in control.

There was an interesting comment on the BBC news a few days ago, suggesting that whilst Israel wants to defeat and disarm Hamas, they don't want to crush them entirely. The reason given was that Hamas is a known quantity which Israel can negotiate with, and without Hamas there is a danger that ISIS could take over Gaza.

Let us also remember that the West armed and supported Al-Qaeda for its own reasons, clearly not expecting them to do any of their dirty work on American or European soil.

What goes around comes around. Or as my old dad used to say, "if you can't take a joke you shouldn't have joined!"
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Old 8th August 2014
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Re: Simple really

All we need to understand is that until humans learn how to truly respect other humans (and the planet on which we live), then chaos will rule. The older I get the more crazy the world seems.
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Old 9th August 2014
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Re: Simple really

That's as good an explanation as you'll see.

It's just a total complicated mess with people doing horrible things to each other for reasons I don't and I fear never will understand. The reality is that western culture and mindsets are so very different to those areas that we can't comprehend why it's happening. For that reason we should be very, very careful how or if we get involved as far reaching mistakes are so easily and unwittingly made.

It is so desperately awful.

Hec
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Old 9th August 2014
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Re: Simple really

My brain hurts!
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Old 9th August 2014
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Re: Simple really

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Originally Posted by Grumpy Hec View Post
That's as good an explanation as you'll see.

It's just a total complicated mess with people doing horrible things to each other for reasons I don't and I fear never will understand. The reality is that western culture and mindsets are so very different to those areas that we can't comprehend why it's happening. For that reason we should be very, very careful how or if we get involved as far reaching mistakes are so easily and unwittingly made.

It is so desperately awful.

Hec
It is truly horrendous at present.

What really beggars belief is that ISIS were reported to have started one of their more horrific missions (to cleanse a city of Christians) after Friday morning prayers. What on earth do these people pray about?

I cannot help but feel that the ease and low cost of long distance air transport has made things worse all round. Things were much simpler when folk didn't travel around as much, and didn't interfere in other peoples lives.

I suppose travel has made Europe a safer and much more peaceful place in recent times, but the culture gap between 'the West' and the 'Middle East' (with parts of Africa and Asia) has become so wide that some sort of conflict seems difficult to avoid.

I also wonder whatever happened to our Middle East Peace Envoy?
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Old 10th August 2014
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Re: Simple really

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Originally Posted by Naughty Nigel View Post
I also wonder whatever happened to our Middle East Peace Envoy?
He's probably ensconced in a penthouse somewhere working on a 'KERCHING' multi-million $ speech. Either that, or hard at work on Plan ZZZZZ.

My thoughts over the last year or so is that he has been extremely conspicuous by his absence... not a cheep from the peep in two years?
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Re: Simple really

Having read through the various posts and, after giving due consideration to all of the above, I'm of the opinion that, If we hang all the politicians, stone to death all religious leaders, drown all the bankers and shoot all the generals, we could have a peaceful world.. for a few days.
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Old 10th August 2014
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Re: Simple really

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wally View Post
Having read through the various posts and, after giving due consideration to all of the above, I'm of the opinion that, If we hang all the politicians, stone to death all religious leaders, drown all the bankers and shoot all the generals, we could have a peaceful world.. for a few days.
...... until the next batch of politicians, bankers and generals elect themselves.
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Old 10th August 2014
maccabeej maccabeej is offline
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Re: Simple really

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wally View Post
Having read through the various posts and, after giving due consideration to all of the above, I'm of the opinion that, If we hang all the politicians, stone to death all religious leaders, drown all the bankers and shoot all the generals, we could have a peaceful world.. for a few days.
I believe a corporal Schicklgruber tried that in the 30s and 40s, that went well
BTW that was his mother's name his father was not recorded - so he really was a ba***rd.
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Old 10th August 2014
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Re: Simple really

The World is indeed a crazy place. Much of the madness seems to spring from one group believing that their fictitious deity is superior to all other fictitious deities and that this non-issue is actually worth fighting about. Of course, the often made excuse that they are acting in the name of a supreme being is very convenient because, of course, nobody can check the validity of that with an alleged phenomenon that has never been seen, met or experienced and in all reasonable probability does not exist.

As for our Middle East Peace Envoy, giving him the job was akin to appointing a serial arsonist as a fire marshall.
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Old 10th August 2014
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Re: Simple really

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Originally Posted by Zuiko View Post
The World is indeed a crazy place. Much of the madness seems to spring from one group believing that their fictitious deity is superior to all other fictitious deities and that this non-issue is actually worth fighting about. Of course, the often made excuse that they are acting in the name of a supreme being is very convenient because, of course, nobody can check the validity of that with an alleged phenomenon that has never been seen, met or experienced and in all reasonable probability does not exist.

As for our Middle East Peace Envoy, giving him the job was akin to appointing a serial arsonist as a fire marshall.
Leave my deity alone!

The fact is that none of these people are acting in the name of any supreme deity, as killing and maiming is not what deities teach their followers to do.

As so often in the past it is their own warped and brainwashed interpretation of what they have been told their deity wants them to do. The danger is that nobody ever dares to challenge the teachings of the so called 'Preachers of Hate', and before we know it a new generation of extremists is hatched.

I suspect that if the Archbishop of Canterbury or Cardinal Vincent Nichols were to advocate the stoning of adulterous women or dissenters they would be very swiftly taken away and probably Sectioned, but that never seems to happen in those volatile parts of the world that we are discussing.

(I would agree that some of the OT texts do indeed talk of stoning and human sacrifice, but it is generally accepted that these were written about 4,000 years ago, since when our interpretations have changed significantly.)

Conversely, one could also argue that it is precisely the lack of belief in a supreme deity (and their Final Judgements), and our failure to follow The Commandments that has led us into this mess.
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Old 10th August 2014
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Re: Simple really

But the strangest bit is all of these people believe they all worship the same diety but in slightly differing ways.
Each also believe killing is wrong but that they do it in the name of their God so it is all in order.
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Old 10th August 2014
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Re: Simple really

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But the strangest bit is all of these people believe they all worship the same diety but in slightly differing ways.
Each also believe killing is wrong but that they do it in the name of their God so it is all in order.
But that is just the point - the people we are discussing do not believe that killing is wrong! Indeed, some (such as the 911 and 7/7 terrorists) had the mistaken idea that martyring themselves in the killing of infidels would result in them going to heaven and spending eternity with twenty-one virgins.

I wouldn't say that was 'slightly' different.
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Old 10th August 2014
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Re: Simple really

I must say that I have never understood the 21 virgin line.
Islam frowns on fornication, so what would they do with them?
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