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  #16  
Old 3rd December 2017
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Re: Camera scanned with EM5

Tri-X 400
I beginning to prefer the Plustek scan (8200Ai with SilverFast)

Liverpool by -Steve Ricoh-
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  #17  
Old 5th December 2017
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Re: Camera scanned with EM5

I love theses black and whites!
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Old 5th December 2017
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Re: Camera scanned with EM5

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I love theses black and whites!
Thank you, apart from pointing the camera, the work is mainly done by Tri-X; it's well known for its rich blacks. I did very little to the image, it was ready for output almost straight from the scan. Saves a bucket load of time in PP, and one of the merits of shooting film.
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Old 5th December 2017
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Re: Camera scanned with EM5

So do you shoot with film and then scan? And print digitally? Details please.
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Old 5th December 2017
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Re: Camera scanned with EM5

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So do you shoot with film and then scan? And print digitally? Details please.
Yes, shoot with film, digitally scan. The scan is more than adequate for sharing (that's what 99.9% do after all) but I also have the negative which could be used for darkroom printing. Although currently I do not have access to a darkroom, I believe I could send the digital copy along with the negative and have silver gelatin prints returned enlarged from the negative (the digital being my marked-up contact sheet to help the darkroom technician).
In terms of scanning camera v dedicated scanner, all my digital cameras are equiped with Bayer filter arrays, so when I import into LR and / or PS the file(s) contain colour channel representation of B&W, so the image has to be desaturated. This seems to me to be quite perverse to record an image on silver gelatin film, then to scan using a Bayer equiped camera that is trying to interpolate colour by filters in front of a digital chip whose purpose is to discriminate and record illumenance levels. The Plustek scanner on the overhand has a CCD array, three rows for RGB and a separate dedicated row for B&W. It also makes a double pass with different lamp intensities to extract as much as possible from the neg. Of course the resulting B&W scan consists purely of illuminance levels, so if I click on desaturated or B&W in PS or LR it makes no difference because the file is purely shades of B&W.
Benefit of camera scanning is speed. I can camera scan a complete roll of 36 in 10 to 15 minutes. I can use these as large contacts, and then go back and scan the ones I want using the Plustek.
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  #21  
Old 26th December 2017
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Re: Camera scanned with EM5

For anyone remotely interested in scanning negatives, the key to using the Plustek Scanner with Silverfast is to select the film type in Negafix. This should be done for B&W as well as colour. If correctly exposed at capture time there is very little to do. I made really minor adjustments to the black and white points, that was it. Here's an example of the output from HP5+: Real blacks and whites, like shooting with a monochrome digital at a fraction of the cost.

Beer by -Steve Ricoh-
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Old 27th December 2017
KeithL KeithL is offline
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Re: Camera scanned with EM5

H'mmm. I have a Plustek 7200 scanner. I haven't used it for yonks, so I dug it out, and thought I might get ingoing again. No such luck! Plastic never did a driver for Mac for it - yet they did for the 7300 and 7500. I suppose I could use it with my old XP laptop; I never connect that to the net, though I can do; don't know if it would be fast enough though.

I have over 2000 colour slides that I started digitizing using a camera and slide copier. The results are not good (never found slide copiers much use!) so it owulbe nice to get the 7200 going agin. Any thoughts, anyone? Worth trying VueScan with my laptop? It's a Fujitsu Siemens Lifespan S.
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Old 27th December 2017
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Re: Camera scanned with EM5

Have you tried Vuescan with your Plustek scanner.
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  #24  
Old 27th December 2017
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Re: Camera scanned with EM5

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Originally Posted by KeithL View Post
H'mmm. I have a Plustek 7200 scanner. I haven't used it for yonks, so I dug it out, and thought I might get ingoing again. No such luck! Plastic never did a driver for Mac for it - yet they did for the 7300 and 7500. I suppose I could use it with my old XP laptop; I never connect that to the net, though I can do; don't know if it would be fast enough though.

I have over 2000 colour slides that I started digitizing using a camera and slide copier. The results are not good (never found slide copiers much use!) so it owulbe nice to get the 7200 going agin. Any thoughts, anyone? Worth trying VueScan with my laptop? It's a Fujitsu Siemens Lifespan S.
I would recommend getting the Plustek 8200Ai which comes with Silverfast studio. This being the top of the range Silverfast it has Negafix for neutralising the orange colour cast on negatives, and a method for characterising the scanner using a reference slide provided (needs Internet access during the characterisation phase). To extract the best from slides it's important to characterise.
Sell the 7200 on eBay; the 8200Ai with software should cost around 300. You never know, it may get you back to shooting film. We need more people to see the light and join the Emulsive group.
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  #25  
Old 28th December 2017
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Re: Camera scanned with EM5

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Originally Posted by Ricoh View Post
The Plustek scanner on the overhand has a CCD array, three rows for RGB and a separate dedicated row for B&W.
My understanding is that the fourth channel on the Plustek and similar scanners is not a dedicated black and white channel but the infrared channel which is used by the software to remove physical defects on the film (although this does not work with silver emulsions like Tri-X or Kodachrome slides but only with other colour films or chromogenic monochrome films). The scanner creates a black and white image using the RGB channels, just like a camera. In fact the Bayer array on a digital camera has no practical effect when photographing a silver emulsion monochrome negative, since all channels will record identical data (there might be insignificant slight differences when photographing a chromogenic monochrome negative). In my experience, using both a mk i and mk ii EM-5 to "scan" film originals, the presence or absence of a low pass filter is far more significant than anything the Bayer array might (or might not) do.


I have a film archive going back nearly sixty years, which I have digitised in different ways. For 120 and 5" x 4" I find the Epson V700 excellent, although it is not so good for 135 film. My first dedicated 135 film scanner was a Canon FS2700 - very sharp, but poor dynamic rage and terrible software. My second was a Minolta Dimage 5400 II - an excellent scanner but again with dire software (although it worked well with Vuescan). I sold it because I was unhappy about its long term prospects should anything go wrong, and used the money to buy an Olympus 60mm macro lens. This I have used with both versions of the E-M5, using a home-made rig to hold everything in place.


Following earlier discussion on this forum, I decided to try a Plustek scanner, and bought an Optic Scan 8100 (I was not bothered about the IR channel on the 8200). This is a good scanner, but crippled by the awful Silverfast software (Silverslow?) although again it works well with Vuescan. Apart from the slowness, there is another drawback compared with the EM-5/Macro method. The light source used in the Plustek is very prone to show up small scratches on the film (older members may remember the debate about the merits of condenser v. diffuser enlargers - this is similar). Using my E-M5 and illuminating the film with an LED light panel placed about 5 cm below, this problem is much reduced


Although Silverfast and Vuescan allow multiple exposure, the result is still very much dictated by the scanner software, which the user does not have much control over (altering settings on most scanner software changes the processing the software does to the raw data, not the original exposure). Using a camera on the other hand, it is possible to take several bracketed exposures and merge them in Photoshop, rather like an HDR picture (I now use Jimmy Mcintyre's excellent RayaPro panel for merging). The final nail in the coffin of the Plustek (which will soon be going on Ebay) is that the E-M5 ii and 60mm macro is sharper. I have printed an A2+ (22" wide) print from one of my 135 negatives "scanned" this way, and the result is excellent.


I have some pictures of my camera "scanning" home-made setup - if there is sufficient interest I will post them here.


David
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  #26  
Old 28th December 2017
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Re: Camera scanned with EM5

Perhaps that's why Negafix has such a beneficial effect. Even B&W film base has a slight cast which varies depending on film type, eg HP5 or Tri-X, but Negafix sorts it, and hey presto a decent scan. It works for me, and even though DMAX is only 3.6, I find ME comes to the rescue.
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  #27  
Old 28th December 2017
Ricoh Ricoh is offline
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Re: Camera scanned with EM5

Quote:
Originally Posted by dcbrookes View Post
My understanding is that the fourth channel on the Plustek and similar scanners is not a dedicated black and white channel but the infrared channel which is used by the software to remove physical defects on the film (although this does not work with silver emulsions like Tri-X or Kodachrome slides but only with other colour films or chromogenic monochrome films). The scanner creates a black and white image using the RGB channels, just like a camera. In fact the Bayer array on a digital camera has no practical effect when photographing a silver emulsion monochrome negative, since all channels will record identical data (there might be insignificant slight differences when photographing a chromogenic monochrome negative). In my experience, using both a mk i and mk ii EM-5 to "scan" film originals, the presence or absence of a low pass filter is far more significant than anything the Bayer array might (or might not) do.


I have a film archive going back nearly sixty years, which I have digitised in different ways. For 120 and 5" x 4" I find the Epson V700 excellent, although it is not so good for 135 film. My first dedicated 135 film scanner was a Canon FS2700 - very sharp, but poor dynamic rage and terrible software. My second was a Minolta Dimage 5400 II - an excellent scanner but again with dire software (although it worked well with Vuescan). I sold it because I was unhappy about its long term prospects should anything go wrong, and used the money to buy an Olympus 60mm macro lens. This I have used with both versions of the E-M5, using a home-made rig to hold everything in place.


Following earlier discussion on this forum, I decided to try a Plustek scanner, and bought an Optic Scan 8100 (I was not bothered about the IR channel on the 8200). This is a good scanner, but crippled by the awful Silverfast software (Silverslow?) although again it works well with Vuescan. Apart from the slowness, there is another drawback compared with the EM-5/Macro method. The light source used in the Plustek is very prone to show up small scratches on the film (older members may remember the debate about the merits of condenser v. diffuser enlargers - this is similar). Using my E-M5 and illuminating the film with an LED light panel placed about 5 cm below, this problem is much reduced


Although Silverfast and Vuescan allow multiple exposure, the result is still very much dictated by the scanner software, which the user does not have much control over (altering settings on most scanner software changes the processing the software does to the raw data, not the original exposure). Using a camera on the other hand, it is possible to take several bracketed exposures and merge them in Photoshop, rather like an HDR picture (I now use Jimmy Mcintyre's excellent RayaPro panel for merging). The final nail in the coffin of the Plustek (which will soon be going on Ebay) is that the E-M5 ii and 60mm macro is sharper. I have printed an A2+ (22" wide) print from one of my 135 negatives "scanned" this way, and the result is excellent.


I have some pictures of my camera "scanning" home-made setup - if there is sufficient interest I will post them here.


David
I'm interested to see the results. I'm sure anyone with an enquiring mind would too.
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  #28  
Old 28th December 2017
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Re: Camera scanned with EM5

Quote:
Originally Posted by dcbrookes View Post
The light source used in the Plustek is very prone to show up small scratches on the film (older members may remember the debate about the merits of condenser v. diffuser enlargers - this is similar). Using my E-M5 and illuminating the film with an LED light panel placed about 5 cm below, this problem is much reduced
My Nikon film scanner also accentuates scratches and dust, a particular issue with b&w because as you rightly say the IR channel cannot be used to remove them automatically. It's a long job with retouching software afterwards. A friend of mine concluded that the best way to digitise normal b&w film was to make a print in the darkroom using his diffusion-illuminated enlarger, and scan the print!

I've rigged up a copying system using my E-M5 and an OM 50mm macro lens but for colour slides at least the Nikon scanner seems to give better results - especially in sharpness and dynamic range though the difference is not large. I haven't tried this with b&w negs.

I agree about Silverfast software, I gave up on it very quickly. Nikon Scan is actually pretty good, as is Vuescan although I find it quite difficult to get the best out of that.
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Old 28th December 2017
dcbrookes dcbrookes is offline
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Re: Camera scanned with EM5

I have an old plugin called "Polaroid Dust and Scratch Remover" which works very well on dust but is not so good for scratches. It also only works on the 32 bit version of Photoshop. It is not so easy to find these days but is worth a try.

I have visitors today, but will post an example of Plustek v. E-M5 ii / 60 mm macro tomorrow.

David
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Old 29th December 2017
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Re: Camera scanned with EM5

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricoh View Post
I would recommend getting the Plustek 8200Ai which comes with Silverfast studio. This being the top of the range Silverfast it has Negafix for neutralising the orange colour cast on negatives, and a method for characterising the scanner using a reference slide provided (needs Internet access during the characterisation phase). To extract the best from slides it's important to characterise.
Sell the 7200 on eBay; the 8200Ai with software should cost around 300. You never know, it may get you back to shooting film. We need more people to see the light and join the Emulsive group.
Whilst I hear what you say, quite honestly, it isn't worth the expenditure to me. I feel that installing Vue Scan into the old XP laptop would give me a fighting chance. I found the 7200 sharp and the results were generally very acceptable. One of my problems though is that my best slides are mounted in glass, and I'm NOT NOT! NOT going to unmount them to scan them! (I have many faults, I'm sure, but I'm not that mad!) I found using the slide copier that the glass causes the focus to be off enough to make them unsharp.

Given the age of those slides, and their content (many are of the interiors of stately homes, some of which don't exist any more) I had thought there may be an archive somewhere that might like them, and I spoke to National Heritage, but they weren't in the slightest bit interested. And they are even all catalogued and most are dated!
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