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Camera conference General and model-specific E-System camera chat.

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  #31  
Old 17th October 2012
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E1 form... with all the technological upgrades

But let's be honest, where is this possible new camera to be placed in the market?
Do Olympus want to continue with support for two separate lens systems with two body systems. If not then maybe we have to accept the next body will be a single system to cater for both lens systems and that 4/3 lenses will not be developed further.
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  #32  
Old 18th October 2012
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Re: The Four Thirds solution - what would you like to see?

To start with I must say that Olympus have almost missed the boat on this, I am worried that solutions now being worked on to use 4/3 lenses on m4/3 bodies may be a fudge at best. I notice quite a few 4/3 users are selling kit to go for m4/3 (I have sold four) or moving to other brands for specific uses.

I would favour an E30/E5 sized Olympus m4/3 body with the availability of a 300mm fast prime and the CAF Tracking ability of some other brands. If it can also focus 4/3 lenses at the speed that 4/3 bodies do then that would be the icing on the cake. And! It must have a built in flash - all those fiddly little bits of plastic to lose just to end up with an inferior guide number and an appendage that is prone to accidental damage!

The main issue is that Olympus in particular seem to be favouring form over function - my E-M5 initially felt too small for serious use and now with the HLD-6 it just feels awkward with controls not falling easily to hand without looking. My E-5 (now sold) and Canon feel so much easier to use than the E-M5 even though the technical ability of the E-M5 is greater. For most of my photography ease and speed of use is crucial, it's no good having superior IQ and noise characteristics if you didn't get the shots in the first place.

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  #33  
Old 18th October 2012
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Re: The Four Thirds solution - what would you like to see?

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Morison View Post

The main issue is that Olympus in particular seem to be favouring form over function - my E-M5 initially felt too small for serious use and now with the HLD-6 it just feels awkward with controls not falling easily to hand without looking. My E-5 (now sold) and Canon feel so much easier to use than the E-M5 even though the technical ability of the E-M5 is greater. For most of my photography ease and speed of use is crucial, it's no good having superior IQ and noise characteristics if you didn't get the shots in the first place.

Regards

David
I agree with all of Davids points in his post and this one in particular. The thrust for "small is best" and retro asthetic appeal seems to drowning ergonomics. Having recently moved from an E520 to an E3 the difference in usability and quality is striking. Simply holding the E3 and operating functions is a much more pleasent and efficient experience. It both encourages and aids creative use. When I tried the EM5, whilst it is clearly an extremely capable beast photographically, I did not enjoy the feel of it and found it harder to use.

Please, please Olympus provide a camera with these considerations in mind to run alonside the OM-D series. The two compliment each other.

Opting for small bodies will drive people like me away to rival systems which I for one really do not want to do on economic as well as inclination grounds. However Olympus seem to be shaping up to force my hand.

Hec
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  #34  
Old 18th October 2012
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Re: The Four Thirds solution - what would you like to see?

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Originally Posted by Grumpy Hec View Post
When I tried the EM5, whilst it is clearly an extremely capable beast photographically, I did not enjoy the feel of it and found it harder to use.

Opting for small bodies will drive people like me away to rival systems which I for one really do not want to do on economic as well as inclination grounds. However Olympus seem to be shaping up to force my hand.
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  #35  
Old 18th October 2012
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Re: The Four Thirds solution - what would you like to see?

Referring back to Ian's original post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian View Post

What other features would you like to see?

Ian
Thanks for asking, Ian, here goes

There are a few things that I think would offer useability improvements across the Oly line, and could probably be provided for low cost in development and implementation - better firmware upgrade process, better battery management, ability to save settings.

Firmware upgrade - the current process works, as long as it works, and is pretty simple. However, it can shred the nerves sitting and waiting and not knowing whether anything is happening or whether it is safe to abort. I would like to see the steps in the process separated, so that we OK to go on to the next one or can safely quit. The time-consuming parts are the initial download from the net and the actual camera update. We can't do anything about the latter, and we have a big warning screen telling us not to do anything, and it takes a fairly predictable amount of time, which is all fair enough. For the former, the time can vary wildly depending on the load on Oly's sevrer, speed of your own link etc., so I would like to see some sort of progress indicator and a safe "cancel" option.

Battery management - the main thing I miss is a more accurate view of the state of charge of the batteries. For the big E's I use a Hahnel Twin V Pro charger which charges 2 at a time, and provides a percentage charge indicator. Its resolution is pretty low - 0/20/40/80/100% - but that is considerably better than the full/1 bar/CHANGE ME NOW! that we have at the moment. Before going to shoot a rugby match I check the BLM-5s in the Hahnel charger. If it shows 40% or higher I know there is a good chance that they will last the game (although I always carry a spare pair, of course), if it's 20% I will expect to have to change at half-time and if it's zero the new pair goes in immediately and the empty pair goes on charge. This is much more reliable than the indicator on the camera. Unfortunately Hahnel have not yet produced a charger plate for the BLN-1s, I appreciate that this is nothing to do with Oly but it means the only indicator we have is the one in the camera. I would like to see a more accurate charge indicator on the camera. Not necessarily in the regular viewfinder display, I would be quite happy with it hiding under a menu somewhere, maybe on the same page that shows firmware level etc.

Saving settings - it would be useful to be able to save your changed settings to a card and reload them again. Sometimes firmware upgrades reset everything (although 1.2 to 1.5 on the E-M5 seems not to have done), and for those lucky enough to run more than 1 body the ability to copy settings across would be useful. This didn't used to be so much of an issue but with the degree of customisation offered by the E-M5 it is very easy to lose track of what you've changed.

I hope these suggestions are constructive and helpful.

Ciao ... John
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  #36  
Old 18th October 2012
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Re: The Four Thirds solution - what would you like to see?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bikie John View Post

Battery management - the main thing I miss is a more accurate view of the state of charge of the batteries. For the big E's I use a Hahnel Twin V Pro charger which charges 2 at a time, and provides a percentage charge indicator. Its resolution is pretty low - 0/20/40/80/100% - but that is considerably better than the full/1 bar/CHANGE ME NOW! that we have at the moment. Before going to shoot a rugby match I check the BLM-5s in the Hahnel charger. If it shows 40% or higher I know there is a good chance that they will last the game (although I always carry a spare pair, of course), if it's 20% I will expect to have to change at half-time and if it's zero the new pair goes in immediately and the empty pair goes on charge. This is much more reliable than the indicator on the camera. Unfortunately Hahnel have not yet produced a charger plate for the BLN-1s, I appreciate that this is nothing to do with Oly but it means the only indicator we have is the one in the camera. I would like to see a more accurate charge indicator on the camera. Not necessarily in the regular viewfinder display, I would be quite happy with it hiding under a menu somewhere, maybe on the same page that shows firmware level etc.
Canon have an accessible battery charge indicator in camera - seems to have increments of 2%.

David
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  #37  
Old 19th October 2012
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Re: The Four Thirds solution - what would you like to see?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bikie John View Post
Referring back to Ian's original post:



Battery management - the main thing I miss is a more accurate view of the state of charge of the batteries.
A very good point and one I had omitted to mention in my somewhat fancyful list.

Hec
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  #38  
Old 19th October 2012
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Re: The Four Thirds solution - what would you like to see?

Ian

Just two simple requirements would part me with my cash;

1) Improve sensor over E-5. By this I mean improve dynamic range and better high ISO performance

2) C-AF that is accurate and reasonably performant with SHG lenses. David comments about BIF is about right. Accuracy is more important than speed.


Gary
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  #39  
Old 22nd October 2012
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Re: The Four Thirds solution - what would you like to see?

Quote:
Originally Posted by crimbo View Post
E1 form... with all the technological upgrades

But let's be honest, where is this possible new camera to be placed in the market?
Do Olympus want to continue with support for two separate lens systems with two body systems. If not then maybe we have to accept the next body will be a single system to cater for both lens systems and that 4/3 lenses will not be developed further.
I have to agree with this, and something someone wrote on another site put it rather better than I could have.

Quote:
The movement in technology is such that
If four thirds can't differentiate itself from micro
there isnt a reason for it to exist .
So anything they come up with is liable to be a stop gap till there are no FT users to cater for, or that user base has diminished to a acceptable level to ignore.
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  #40  
Old 22nd October 2012
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Re: The Four Thirds solution - what would you like to see?

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Morison View Post
The main issue is that Olympus in particular seem to be favouring form over function - my E-M5 initially felt too small for serious use and now with the HLD-6 it just feels awkward with controls not falling easily to hand without looking.
I agree. Having decided to sell my E-1 in favour of the capabilities of the E-M5 I too find the wheels, with part one of the grip attached, do not fall to finger/thumb. I took the grip off last night and compared the handling directly against the E-PL2 and preferred the latter. However, I have no 43 glass now so the lighter kit does appeal. But handling must not be compromised.
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  #41  
Old 21st August 2013
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Re: The Four Thirds solution - what would you like to see?

Hi Ian

Thanks for topic

1) I want olympus to improve on the Sensor so we can take good pictures in dark as the current DLSR range struggles over ISO 400 .

2) AF points needs to be improved .

3) Keep the weather proof features .

4) Get more megapixles in 20 should be fine according to me .

5) I do like the OM-D touch for body.

p.s. Not related to camera though

1) Need a good portrait lens maybe a 1.2 or 1.8 fixed will do wonders range from 24-100mm or 75mm currently 35-100mm 2.0 is far too expensive



Cheers
Rahul
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  #42  
Old 21st August 2013
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Re: The Four Thirds solution - what would you like to see?

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Originally Posted by rawclicks View Post
Hi Ian

Thanks for topic

1) I want olympus to improve on the Sensor so we can take good pictures in dark as the current DLSR range struggles over ISO 400 .

2) AF points needs to be improved .

3) Keep the weather proof features .

4) Get more megapixles in 20 should be fine according to me .

5) I do like the OM-D touch for body.

p.s. Not related to camera though

1) Need a good portrait lens maybe a 1.2 or 1.8 fixed will do wonders range from 24-100mm or 75mm currently 35-100mm 2.0 is far too expensive



Cheers
Rahul
I don't know why you think oly struggles with anything over 400 iso, I've used high iso often with excellent results.

Why do you want more mega pixels, isn't more pixels just pixels for pixels sake? You wouldn't notice the difference going from 16 to 20 the resolution would be essentially the same. More pixels don't neccassarily make a better camera.

Paul
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  #43  
Old 21st August 2013
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Re: The Four Thirds solution - what would you like to see?

Hi Ian and thanks for posting such a curious question....of course those that are not happy with what they now have probably want something better but just for starters........the OM D5 is still the best entry on the street so....just speculation of course....what about a spigot for my pint of bitter......or better still....perhaps the means to supply a portion of single malt.......just two suggestions mate....wot about U!!
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  #44  
Old 21st August 2013
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Re: The Four Thirds solution - what would you like to see?

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Originally Posted by Bill Gordon View Post
Hi Ian and thanks for posting such a curious question....of course those that are not happy with what they now have probably want something better but just for starters........the OM D5 is still the best entry on the street so....just speculation of course....what about a spigot for my pint of bitter......or better still....perhaps the means to supply a portion of single malt.......just two suggestions mate....wot about U!!
You're a genius, Bill - built in single malt dispenser would be a killer feature. Having recently been to the Orkneys I would fill mine with Highland Park.
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  #45  
Old 21st August 2013
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Re: The Four Thirds solution - what would you like to see?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rawclicks View Post
Hi Ian

Thanks for topic

1) I want olympus to improve on the Sensor so we can take good pictures in dark as the current DLSR range struggles over ISO 400 .

2) AF points needs to be improved .

3) Keep the weather proof features .

4) Get more megapixles in 20 should be fine according to me .

5) I do like the OM-D touch for body.

p.s. Not related to camera though

1) Need a good portrait lens maybe a 1.2 or 1.8 fixed will do wonders range from 24-100mm or 75mm currently 35-100mm 2.0 is far too expensive



Cheers
Rahul
I'm afraid I don't understand your point about the lenses.
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