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  #16  
Old 14th September 2010
fitheach fitheach is offline
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Re: Olympus R.I.P?

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Originally Posted by steverh View Post
The Panasonic DMC G2 is pretty close
Interesting review - I hadn't seen that before. However, what advantage does the EVF give you as a user? That review mentions removing the bulky optical viewfinder and mechanism but to what end. I think the Olys are small enough already. No doubt Olympus are thinking of all the extra gimmicks they can pack-in to attract a few more users. My optical viewfinder gives me flicker free images already and I can look through it without switching the camera on

The touchscreen, on the other hand, I could see being useful. A faster way of navigating menus, a nifty way of selecting autofocus area or zooming-in on images. I would just worry about the longevity of the touchscreen.
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  #17  
Old 14th September 2010
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Re: Olympus R.I.P?

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Originally Posted by Nick Temple-Fry View Post

Meanwhile there is nothing stopping us taking pictures with what we've got.

Nick
Amongst all the hype it's easy to lose sight of that!
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  #18  
Old 14th September 2010
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Re: Olympus R.I.P?

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Originally Posted by fitheach View Post
Interesting review - I hadn't seen that before. However, what advantage does the EVF give you as a user? That review mentions removing the bulky optical viewfinder and mechanism but to what end. I think the Olys are small enough already. No doubt Olympus are thinking of all the extra gimmicks they can pack-in to attract a few more users. My optical viewfinder gives me flicker free images already and I can look through it without switching the camera on

The touchscreen, on the other hand, I could see being useful. A faster way of navigating menus, a nifty way of selecting autofocus area or zooming-in on images. I would just worry about the longevity of the touchscreen.
But you do have an antequated mirror banging and slapping around. If Olympus can get mirrorless technology right it opens the door to much faster frame rates and sensor tilt and shift, to name just two possibilities.
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  #19  
Old 14th September 2010
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Re: Olympus R.I.P?

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Originally Posted by fitheach View Post
Interesting review - I hadn't seen that before. However, what advantage does the EVF give you as a user? That review mentions removing the bulky optical viewfinder and mechanism but to what end. I think the Olys are small enough already. No doubt Olympus are thinking of all the extra gimmicks they can pack-in to attract a few more users. My optical viewfinder gives me flicker free images already and I can look through it without switching the camera on

The touchscreen, on the other hand, I could see being useful. A faster way of navigating menus, a nifty way of selecting autofocus area or zooming-in on images. I would just worry about the longevity of the touchscreen.
Interesting about what we like, and what we dont.

To me the touchscreen is just a pointless gimmick and I can't see how to use it with the camera held to my eye. Whereas I can quite happily move focus points whilst composing a shot using the buttons on the E-3 or the E-PL1. (Indeed my E-3 macro shots frequently have had the focus point moved whilst watching the insect through the viewfinder).

On the E-PL1 I can throw the super control panel up onto the vf-2, superimposed on the image (albeit too brightly), make the adjustments to setting with my thumb and then take the picture, all without lowering the camera.

We've all got different demands/requirements. Makes it interesting to see how Olympus will meet them.

One thing the evf does/can give is an end to the nonsense of composing the image with the lens wide open, guessing the dof and then taking the shot (or fiddling about with dof preview). Perhaps we can even get the aperture ring back to where it should be on the lens.

I'm not suggesting the evf is ready yet, but it's come a long way. Maybe we should give it a chance.

Nick
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  #20  
Old 14th September 2010
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Re: Olympus R.I.P?

All valid points. But having mulled it over, I don't think that's really the issue.

A relatively small amount of the user bade of a system will use the top-end product - I certainly don't own an E-3 and would find it hard to justify paying double or more over the base or mid-range camera for what will amount, for the majority of people, to be relatively minor advantages in real world shooting.

The main purpose for top-end equipment, not just in cameras, is as a 'halo' product to give prestige to lower end products or give the user something to aspire to. Entry level Canikons aren't a whole lot different to the equivalent Olys, but it certainly helps their cause that nearly every pro uses a 1d or D3 or whatever.

The real problem with the E-5 announcement is that it doesn't seem to offer anything blinding to aspire to (certainly not for 1500) and seems to be about 18 months behind the curve of its competition. If that's the situation for the big gun, what hope is there for the rest of the range?

I have no problem with my equipment (E-520) or the pictures it (or rather, I) take. The problem is that it puts doubts into the mind of people about the system - so they have doubts about upgrading or investing money in lenses or flashes etc. It then becomes a self fulfilling prophecy of sorts, because if the doubt causes people to stop spending on the system, then the company stops making so much cash on it and sees less and less reason to keep supporting it.

That's the problem.
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  #21  
Old 14th September 2010
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Re: Olympus R.I.P?

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Originally Posted by snag2000 View Post
All valid points. But having mulled it over, I don't think that's really the issue.

A relatively small amount of the user bade of a system will use the top-end product - I certainly don't own an E-3 and would find it hard to justify paying double or more over the base or mid-range camera for what will amount, for the majority of people, to be relatively minor advantages in real world shooting.

The main purpose for top-end equipment, not just in cameras, is as a 'halo' product to give prestige to lower end products or give the user something to aspire to. Entry level Canikons aren't a whole lot different to the equivalent Olys, but it certainly helps their cause that nearly every pro uses a 1d or D3 or whatever.

The real problem with the E-5 announcement is that it doesn't seem to offer anything blinding to aspire to (certainly not for 1500) and seems to be about 18 months behind the curve of its competition. If that's the situation for the big gun, what hope is there for the rest of the range?

I have no problem with my equipment (E-520) or the pictures it (or rather, I) take. The problem is that it puts doubts into the mind of people about the system - so they have doubts about upgrading or investing money in lenses or flashes etc. It then becomes a self fulfilling prophecy of sorts, because if the doubt causes people to stop spending on the system, then the company stops making so much cash on it and sees less and less reason to keep supporting it.

That's the problem.
That's why I'm trying so hard to convince people of the merits of what I see as a very positive and worth waiting for upgrade. I do agree about the price, that's the only fly in the ointment for me, but I'm sure it will come down to a more realistic level, if only because dictated by market forces.
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  #22  
Old 14th September 2010
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Re: Olympus R.I.P?

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Originally Posted by Nick Temple-Fry View Post

Perhaps we can even get the aperture ring back to where it should be on the lens.

Nick
Nice idea, but not a chance!
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  #23  
Old 14th September 2010
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Re: Olympus R.I.P?

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Originally Posted by Zuiko View Post
That's why I'm trying so hard to convince people of the merits of what I see as a very positive and worth waiting for upgrade. I do agree about the price, that's the only fly in the ointment for me, but I'm sure it will come down to a more realistic level, if only because dictated by market forces.
I do agree with this... Price is important which is why they need to put out the e-40, e430, e-530 and e630. What the range gives, is the option for people to get into the system at whatever price point suits them and start buying lenses.

This E-5 will have more than enough capability for 99.9% of people who would use it (me included) and as long as the same image processor is in the other models people would use it. Little to no other R&D costs needed.

I had someone at work the other day ask my advice and I honestly struggled to advice them to get Olympus because as a new DSLR user there was so much at a similar capability but a lot cheaper because other firms are getting the benefits of bulk manufacturing

Come on Oly - bash out more models and keep in the headines we want to belive

Regards
Andy
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  #24  
Old 14th September 2010
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Re: Olympus R.I.P?

I don't think that the incremental changes of the E5 over the E3 are going to bring photographers flocking to 4/3rds. Olympus had three years to bring out a camera that would blow the opposition out of the water, but they let the opportunity pass. Shame really - Olympus have been good at innovation in the past. Because of this, Olympus will remain a minority marque, with a steady trickle of owners switching to other brands. I'm not planning of switching though!

Jim
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  #25  
Old 14th September 2010
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Re: Olympus R.I.P?

Well the Olympus range has really always been a minortity camera. could it possibily market itself as the thinking mans camera? The quality of the lenses has aways been its best selling point. The e5 will have many detractors but for a good all weather camera it will take a lot of beating. My point is, do we all really need this! The ep 2 has its faults but it is also a adapable camera which can give the results, The E3/E5 can do the same in any condition, some of which the EP2 would falter, neither is perfect, but horses for courses. I certainly won't be upgrading to an E5 in the very near future. But it does seem to me to be the logical progression, not to many bells and whistles but keeping its brand there.
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  #26  
Old 15th September 2010
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Re: Olympus R.I.P?

I bought the E-3 as soon as it was available and in many respects apart from build quality it was a major step forward from my E-1 but given the timescale it needed to be. Frankly no matter how you dress it up the E-5 is dissapointing, not because it isn't a step up from the E-3 but because for one thing it took too long, secondly as a Flagship camera it needs to improve in every respect the performance of all that has gone before not simply be a composite of all that came after it's predecessor.

The biggest problem with the E-5 isn't the camera as such but a Flagship is a signpost to what we can expect in future and if it's merely a warmed up E-3 that was 3 years in the making then things don't look too rosy. That isn't to say that 4/3rds will die off but it's definitely not the way to attract new users and the E-System will suffer from lack of development if it sells only to the existing users base. Lets face it they've still left a few gaps in the lens range.

Everyone says that it isn't all about the camera, that there are those taking award winng shots with lesser cameras and of course this is true but it's a 2 edged sword, you can't on the one hand claim that in the right hands an E-5 is a perfectly capable camera, just as good as anything the others have to offer and then justify the cost over something like an E-420. I actually haven't used my E-3 for ages and haven't as yet had the screen repaired as I now use an E-420 which to all intents and purposes does everything the E-3does at a fraction of the weight and cost.

On the other threads about the E-5 the well known rumour site is blamed for raising expectations, thats rubbish to be honest, there was a similar amount of speculation prior to the E-3 and prior to m4/3rds and the rumour site didn't even exist. The speculation prior to the m4/3 launch was just as unrealistic and I posted at the time that people weren't listening to what Olympus were saying and instead were working themselves into a frenzy with nothing to support what they expected to see, as it turned out m4/3rds was exactly what Olympus said it would be, a product aimed at those considering switching to a DSLR but put off by the complexities of a DSLR, that suggested a a compact with a bigger sensor and interchangeable lenses, not a hi spec DSLR in a compact package.

I for one would be delighted if Olympus developed the m4/3rds line to include a high end body with EVF and splashproofing but even with the Pen line they're falling way behind Panasonic's offerings in areas like AF performance.

I'm sure the E-5 is a good enough camera but it's much less than current users were entitled to expect after waiting so long, it only just managed to make an appearance in less time than the E-3 did and weren't we told we'd never be expected to wait as long as we did for the E-3? It looks like a stop gap until they have something to talk about and IMO the underlying message is that the E-System as we know it is on borrowed time, especially when there are doubt's about an upgrade E-620 and no replacement to the now discontinued E-30.

My mate who had been using an E-510 had been waiting patiently for the E-3 replacement and had been looking at the rumours but I warned him not to expect anything groundbreaking, certainly not as dramatic as the rumours suggested. To be perfectly frank unless you were under the influence of mind bending substances it should have been perfectly clear that the E-5 wasn't going to deviate radically from the existing format. In the end he bought a Nikon D700 and to be honest I don't blame him, I'm sure he isn't sitting devastated right now wishing he'd waited on the E-5.
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  #27  
Old 15th September 2010
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Re: Olympus R.I.P?

I'm going to upgrade from the 520 to the E5 as soon as the latter is available in this country. It looks like a very sensible upgrade.

But I'm not going to buy any more 4/3 lenses. In five years' time, when the micro system is more mature with a range of fast lenses (and maybe weatherproofing?) to match, it will be time to switch to that - or some other system.

It is pretty clear that Olympus have for the forseeable future abandoned any notion of a top professional 'flagship' camera and are putting all their powers into developing MFT.

http://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk...ws_301801.html
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  #28  
Old 15th September 2010
fitheach fitheach is offline
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Re: Olympus R.I.P?

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Originally Posted by snag2000 View Post
It then becomes a self fulfilling prophecy of sorts, because if the doubt causes people to stop spending on the system, then the company stops making so much cash on it and sees less and less reason to keep supporting it.

That's the problem.
Yup!

This might sound like heresy on this forum but I don't really care if Olympus beat Canon and Nikon in the market or not. Just like every other company Olympus aim to be profitable and if that meant dropping DSLRs they would do it. If Oly were to pull-out of the market it would curtail my ability to upgrade and extend my small collection of E-series cameras and lenses - so, for that reason I hope the E-5 is successful.

Some of the features of the E-5 are attractive, to me, but that attractiveness doesn't extend to 1,500. If Nikon or Canon release a new model they will sell lots of them because they are considered the default options. For Olympus to sell lots they need to create some buzz, as they did with microFT, but it doesn't look like that will happen with the E-5. However, even Nikon and Canon are looking for the next feature that will generate some buzz because that will make the difference between selling lots and shed-loads. I just find these features are rarely things I need or want.

My ideal would be something like a digital OM4 with water and dust proofing, largish rear screen, plenty of physical buttons to access the main settings, real manual focusing and an aperture ring on the lens (it's not just Nick). The ability to upgrade the sensor and user programmable firmware would be nice too. It is just a shame it will never happen (from any of the manufacturers). This comes close but I neither have 10,000 or an old Hasselblad lying around.
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  #29  
Old 15th September 2010
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Re: Olympus R.I.P?

Eloquently said everybody.

As a relative DSLR newcomer, but long term Olympus suppporter, I can now understand where we think Olympus are going and see some logic in it.

My main concern is that there will contine to be an appropriate camera body with an eye level viewfinder based on the best technology available at the time, to couple with the E System 4/3 lenses. This appears to be a reasonable assumption.

Alan
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  #30  
Old 15th September 2010
roadkill_6mm roadkill_6mm is offline
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Re: Olympus R.I.P?

It's true to say that the on paper stats of the E-5 don't set the world on fire. Personally I'll reserve judgement until there have been proper reviews and we get to actually see how it performs, particularly at high iso.
I would say the problem for Oly though is the unfortunate fact that stats sell cameras.

Personally the price is waay too much for me to justify spending on it just yet. However I have been following with great interest to see where oly are going. Like most I'm not exactly blown away, but as I said will reserve judgement until actual pics.

I must admit I've spent quite a lot on Zuiko glass, and I'm in no great hurry to jump ship - I've priced up other systems and for the same quailty lenses we're talking money way beyond my budget. I came from using a bridge camera with an evf, which I didn't like one bit-I found it impossible to manual focus and when shooting in burst mode the pause between frames was too long. Having said that I quite liked using the rear screen to frame and shoot, one of the advantages of this (and the evf) is the ability to have all sorts of information on the screen to help. For me I loved having a grid displayed so I could line up the horizonal with the horizon.

I'm quite happy with oly, if things do go south regards the e-system I think I'll probably just fall back to the PEN so I can keep using the excellent lenses.

Regards

Neil
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