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  #61  
Old 16th March 2018
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Re: Salisbury nerve agent - just what the hell is that stuff?

^ sounds like McMafia
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  #62  
Old 16th March 2018
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Re: Salisbury nerve agent - just what the hell is that stuff?

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Organised crime creates enemies, and Russian criminals are notoriously ruthless in their methods. It therefore seems entirely possible to me that a former Russian spy will have made enemies who only know one way of settling old scores.

But this still begs the question; how did these people get their hands on the Novichok nerve agent in the first place, and what was their motive?
I remember at the time of the break up of the Soviet Union fears were expressed about the possible disappearance and lack of accountability of the USSR's huge arsenal of nuclear weapons. It's possible, even probable, that the same could be said for stocks of chemical weapons.
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  #63  
Old 16th March 2018
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Re: Salisbury nerve agent - just what the hell is that stuff?

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... But this still begs the question; how did these people get their hands on the Novichok nerve agent in the first place, and what was their motive? ...
Bribery, corruption and extortion go hand in hand. There's always an 'offer you can't refuse'. If bribery doesn't work, there's always... if at first you don't succeed? The head in the bed may not always be that of a horse.

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Unfortunately, Russia's attitude to date of threatening the Nuclear button to any government that dares question them hardly inspires confidence in their honesty or objectivity.
If the nerve agent is as potent as has been declared, then it would point to unsub(s) who have detailed knowledge of not only the handling, but also how to get through the various in / out transit points without detection, which to my way of thinking points to three things. Someone who knows how to find / mix the ingredients, how to deploy the delivery system without being affected, diplomatic baggage and, it fell off the back of a lorry.

I think the last one is most likely said somene in opposition.
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  #64  
Old 16th March 2018
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Re: Salisbury nerve agent - just what the hell is that stuff?

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I can imagine Putin saying to our defence secretary "I will have your name also!" and Boris Johnson saying "don't tell him Williamson!"

Jim
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  #65  
Old 16th March 2018
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Re: Salisbury nerve agent - just what the hell is that stuff?

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I can imagine Putin saying to our defence secretary "I will have your name also!" and Boris Johnson saying "don't tell him Williamson!"

Jim
So who will play Sergeant Wilson and the Air Raid Warden?
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Old 17th March 2018
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Re: Salisbury nerve agent - just what the hell is that stuff?

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Bribery, corruption and extortion go hand in hand. There's always an 'offer you can't refuse'. If bribery doesn't work, there's always... if at first you don't succeed? The head in the bed may not always be that of a horse.



If the nerve agent is as potent as has been declared, then it would point to unsub(s) who have detailed knowledge of not only the handling, but also how to get through the various in / out transit points without detection, which to my way of thinking points to three things. Someone who knows how to find / mix the ingredients, how to deploy the delivery system without being affected, diplomatic baggage and, it fell off the back of a lorry.

I think the last one is most likely said somene in opposition.
I heard on Newsnight that Novochok can be configured as a binary, so distribution could be delivers in two halves (as it were) at different times, finally making the lethal compound when both components are available. But the bringing of the two together would need specialised equipment, not a cake mixer, within a suitable protective environment.
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Old 17th March 2018
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Re: Salisbury nerve agent - just what the hell is that stuff?

Craig Murray makes some interesting observations on his blog, though whether he comes to the correct conclusions may be a moot point.
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  #68  
Old 17th March 2018
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Re: Salisbury nerve agent - just what the hell is that stuff?

All conclusions at the moment are moot (or possibly mooter or mootest). So much goes on that we never hear about that even the current sabre-rattling by the UK government, which seems on the surface to be to be extremely irresponsible, could just be play-acting or a proxy for something else.

Unfortunately it might not be.

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Re: Salisbury nerve agent - just what the hell is that stuff?

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Craig Murray makes some interesting observations on his blog, though whether he comes to the correct conclusions may be a moot point.
So it could be anyone but the Russians!

I continue to keep an open mind.
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Old 17th March 2018
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Re: Salisbury nerve agent - just what the hell is that stuff?

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So it could be anyone but the Russians!

I continue to keep an open mind.
If not Russia, another state wishing to discredit the country and its leader by attempting to kill the person despised by Russia, a 'double agent' released by prisoner exchange.
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Re: Salisbury nerve agent - just what the hell is that stuff?

In life, there is one thing I am certain of. When it comes to a conspirarcy, there is no shortage of theories.

I have at least, another few hundred lined up on the back-burner.
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Old 17th March 2018
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Re: Salisbury nerve agent - just what the hell is that stuff?

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If not Russia, another state wishing to discredit the country and its leader by attempting to kill the person despised by Russia, a 'double agent' released by prisoner exchange.
Novichok has to be one of the most difficult and dangerous methods of silencing people you don't like. There are so many easier and more certain methods that would arouse much less suspicion.

The fact that this dangerous, top secret and difficult to detect nerve agent has been deployed on British soil surely points either to the Russian state or someone with intimate knowledge of its inner workings?

If this was the work of a rogue agent who had got their hands on Novichock then surely the Kremlin would be much more cooperative in investigations and wouldn't simply threaten the nuclear button as a 'considered response'?

This all makes claims of Russian meddling in the American Presidential Elections all the more credible.
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Old 17th March 2018
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Re: Salisbury nerve agent - just what the hell is that stuff?

Like strangulation? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43438615
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  #74  
Old 17th March 2018
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Re: Salisbury nerve agent - just what the hell is that stuff?

For those who may feel the need for some authoritative information on nerve agents rather than speculation the following link from the OPCW is written in relatively understandable terms to the lay person and may be of interest.
https://www.opcw.org/about-chemical-.../nerve-agents/
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Old 18th March 2018
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Re: Salisbury nerve agent - just what the hell is that stuff?

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Originally Posted by Naughty Nigel View Post
Novichok has to be one of the most difficult and dangerous methods of silencing people you don't like. There are so many easier and more certain methods that would arouse much less suspicion.

The fact that this dangerous, top secret and difficult to detect nerve agent has been deployed on British soil surely points either to the Russian state or someone with intimate knowledge of its inner workings?

If this was the work of a rogue agent who had got their hands on Novichock then surely the Kremlin would be much more cooperative in investigations and wouldn't simply threaten the nuclear button as a 'considered response'?

This all makes claims of Russian meddling in the American Presidential Elections all the more credible.
If you get hit on the back of the head with an apple and there's an apple tree next door then it's not rocket science as to who's to blame regardless of who threw the apple.
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