Olympus UK E-System User Group
Olympus UK E-System User Group

Join our unique resource for Olympus Four Thirds E-System DSLR and Pen and OM-D Micro Four Thirds photographers. Show your images via our free e-group photo gallery. Please read the e-group.uk.net forum terms and conditions before posting for the first time. Above all, welcome!


Go Back   Olympus UK E-System User Group > Show your photos > Foto Fair

Foto Fair Post your photos for friendly, non-critical feedback. This is the place to show pictures if you aren't yet ready for full-blooded critique, or simply want to share an interesting picture with other e-group visitors.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 29th December 2014
KeithL KeithL is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 4,942
Thanks: 366
Thanked 462 Times in 438 Posts
Likes: 1,462
Liked 1,382 Times in 810 Posts
Lancaster Bomber - on board

The earlier thread about the BBMF prompted me to post these shots, taken at East Kirkby, on board the Lancaster Bomber "Just Jane". As photographs, just record shots; but they do show what it's like.

First one is the cockpit; it shows someone in the pilot's seat, and you can just see someone else in the bomb aimer position in the nose:
[IMG][/IMG]

I could touch both sides easily - it's that narrow.

The instrument panel:
[IMG][/IMG]

The view forward from the entry door - you can see a lady struggling over the main wing spar to go forward:
[IMG][/IMG]

View out:
[IMG][/IMG]

The rear turret:
[IMG][/IMG]

And a Vulcan cockpit for comparison:
[IMG][/IMG]

I hope you find these an interesting addition to an already interesting thread. I definitely wouldn't have wanted to serve in either a Lanc or a Vulcan, thank you!

In the Lancaster, there was an Elsan toilet just forward of the rear gunner - he had to slide over it to get into the turret; in the Vulcan the toilet was just a rubber bag......
Reply With Quote
The Following Users Liked This Post:
al_kaholik (29th December 2014), Greytop (30th December 2014), OM USer (29th December 2014)
  #2  
Old 29th December 2014
Falk's Avatar
Falk Falk is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Lower Saxony, GER
Posts: 1,107
Thanks: 236
Thanked 158 Times in 145 Posts
Likes: 90
Liked 30 Times in 19 Posts
Re: Lancaster Bomber - on board

I did not know there was no co-pilot with controll columne of his own in a Lancaster. Seems odd for such a big bird. Do I see the "wires" you were only supposed to break in an emergency - above the throttle levers? Nice in-sights, thanks for sharing these.
__________________
I am not afraid of Tits
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 29th December 2014
KeithL KeithL is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 4,942
Thanks: 366
Thanked 462 Times in 438 Posts
Likes: 1,462
Liked 1,382 Times in 810 Posts
Re: Lancaster Bomber - on board

Quote:
Originally Posted by Falk View Post
I did not know there was no co-pilot with controll columne of his own in a Lancaster. Seems odd for such a big bird. Do I see the "wires" you were only supposed to break in an emergency - above the throttle levers? Nice in-sights, thanks for sharing these.
None of the four engined bombers had a co-pilot! They had a flight engineer, who sat next to, and just behind the pilot. When the FE's seat was hinged down so that he could sit on it, the guy in the nose was stuck in there, with no escape unless the FE got up and lifted his seat again.

Even worse was the Liberator; the main crew escape route was between the fuel tanks, which were along the sides inside the fuselage - and there wasn't room for them to wear parachutes whilst going through the gangway.. They didn't call them flying coffins for nothing! The pilot and FE could escape through the cockpit roof.

Incidentally, there were no ejector seats for the three observer/bomb aimers in the Vulcan, either.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to KeithL For This Useful Post:
Falk (29th December 2014), pandora (29th December 2014)
  #4  
Old 29th December 2014
Jim Ford Jim Ford is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Watford, Herts..
Posts: 8,572
Thanks: 470
Thanked 608 Times in 527 Posts
Likes: 2,756
Liked 1,684 Times in 1,084 Posts
Re: Lancaster Bomber - on board

I feel quite ambivalent about the Lancaster.

On the one hand it was a fine piece of engineering, but on the other was a machine causing dreadful destruction, particularly of Hamburg:

"In January 1946, Major Cortez F. Enloe, a surgeon in the USAAF who worked on the United States Strategic Bombing Survey (USSBS), said that the fire effects of the atomic bomb dropped on Nagasaki "were not nearly as bad as the effects of the R.A.F. raids on Hamburg on July 27th 1943". He estimated more than 40,000 people died in Hamburg."


Jim
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 29th December 2014
KeithL KeithL is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 4,942
Thanks: 366
Thanked 462 Times in 438 Posts
Likes: 1,462
Liked 1,382 Times in 810 Posts
Re: Lancaster Bomber - on board

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Ford View Post
I feel quite ambivalent about the Lancaster.

On the one hand it was a fine piece of engineering, but on the other was a machine causing dreadful destruction, particularly of Hamburg:

"In January 1946, Major Cortez F. Enloe, a surgeon in the USAAF who worked on the United States Strategic Bombing Survey (USSBS), said that the fire effects of the atomic bomb dropped on Nagasaki "were not nearly as bad as the effects of the R.A.F. raids on Hamburg on July 27th 1943". He estimated more than 40,000 people died in Hamburg."

Bombing of Hamburg in World War II - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jim
You have Churchill and Harris to thank for that. The British Bombing Survey Unit showed that area bombing of cities caused little reduction in war materiel production - about 5% in the Blitz - yet they continued to do it. And a quote from Harris: "Only about 20% of my crews are any good - the rest are just there to give the Germans something to shoot at." I wonder what they would have thought if they'd known. The Yanks targeted in order of priority: oil installations, transport, communications. And they had far fewer casualties doing it, along with a far greater effect on Germany's ability to wage war. It is also a fact that 3/4 of the tonnage of bombs dropped on Germany were in the last 8 months of the war, when it was clear that they could not win.

You should read Professor Richard Overy's book "The Bombing War"; he blows away the myths about it all using the government's own figures and reports.

My (much older) brother was stationed outside Hamburg in 1947-48 at Uterson. I remember his descriptions of the damage, and that there were still black crosses on the heaps of rubble then. In the St Pauli district, he said, there were just two buildings standing in an area of 12 miles by 1 approx.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 29th December 2014
al_kaholik's Avatar
al_kaholik al_kaholik is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Winchester
Posts: 1,217
Thanks: 143
Thanked 136 Times in 125 Posts
Likes: 143
Liked 115 Times in 69 Posts
Re: Lancaster Bomber - on board

Pictures of the Vulcan show "progress" interestingly and what many don't realise is that the Vulcan was AVROs replacement to the Lancaster. Apparently there were still some Lancs flying when the Vulcan was brought into testing!

I seem to remember that only a fraction of the Vulcan was crew, the rest payload and fuel. 1/13 rings a bell... Another marvel of the air.

Hanover has an interesting model in the town hall showing the state of the city at different times, one just post war brings home the destruction.

Jim, they say war brings about the most rapid change in technology, such a shame.
__________________
My Flickr
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 29th December 2014
Jim Ford Jim Ford is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Watford, Herts..
Posts: 8,572
Thanks: 470
Thanked 608 Times in 527 Posts
Likes: 2,756
Liked 1,684 Times in 1,084 Posts
Re: Lancaster Bomber - on board

Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithL View Post
My (much older) brother was stationed outside Hamburg in 1947-48 at Uterson. I remember his descriptions of the damage, and that there were still black crosses on the heaps of rubble then. In the St Pauli district, he said, there were just two buildings standing in an area of 12 miles by 1 approx.
I read "The Night Hamburg Died" by Martin Caidin some years ago. A statistic that stuck in my mind was that 30,000 acres of Hamburg were destroyed, contrasting with just 100 in Coventry - and yet people say that 'Coventry got hit badly'!

Jim
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 29th December 2014
pandora's Avatar
pandora pandora is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Victoria, Australia
Posts: 16,647
Thanks: 891
Thanked 1,543 Times in 1,494 Posts
Likes: 1,999
Liked 4,374 Times in 1,975 Posts
Re: Lancaster Bomber - on board

A timely and awesome post, Keith.
__________________
My Flickr

* mark * Wangaratta, Victoria, Australia **
The OM-D E-M1 Mark II * OM-D M5 MkII * XZ2 * XZ1 * E3
On post-processing: The camera kneads the dough, PP bakes the bread - Greenhill
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 29th December 2014
Phill D's Avatar
Phill D Phill D is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 9,959
Thanks: 1,200
Thanked 1,435 Times in 1,325 Posts
Likes: 1,079
Liked 2,417 Times in 1,139 Posts
Re: Lancaster Bomber - on board

Some excellent inside shots there. Not likely to see that in person so thanks for posting.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 29th December 2014
KeithL KeithL is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 4,942
Thanks: 366
Thanked 462 Times in 438 Posts
Likes: 1,462
Liked 1,382 Times in 810 Posts
Re: Lancaster Bomber - on board

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Ford View Post
I read "The Night Hamburg Died" by Martin Caidin some years ago. A statistic that stuck in my mind was that 30,000 acres of Hamburg were destroyed, contrasting with just 100 in Coventry - and yet people say that 'Coventry got hit badly'!

Jim
You would find "Inferno" by Keith Lowe interesting. Some very good photographs of it, too. For Coventry raids:
is a decent source.

Well, I was born in Coventry, and remember it as a child around 1949. There were actually two large raids on Coventry: 14/15 Nov 1940 and IIRC, April 8/9 1941. The second one was if anything larger, but had a much smaller proportion of HE, because the Germans were short of it, and had to reduce its use.

One statistic that perhaps puts the bombing in perspective is that there was more weight of bombs dropped on Rome than on the whole of the UK. Incidentally, almost 3/4 of the bombs dropped on Italy were after the Italians had surrendered.

In both Dresden and Berlin there was more than 80% destruction over just in excess of 13 square miles. In Dresden, the raids were timed so that the next wave hit as the firefighters and rescuers were active dealing with the results of the first raid. Coventry and Dresden were/are twin cities, and Coventry had the golden ball made that tops the Frauenkirche, to complete its restoration. There is apparently a move to restore some of the baroque streets there now.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to KeithL For This Useful Post:
Jim Ford (30th December 2014)
  #11  
Old 30th December 2014
Greytop's Avatar
Greytop Greytop is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Berkshire, UK.
Posts: 6,624
Thanks: 1,140
Thanked 614 Times in 562 Posts
Likes: 1,632
Liked 888 Times in 311 Posts
Re: Lancaster Bomber - on board

Thanks for sharing these shots of the Lancaster from the inside Keith.
Very interesting.
__________________
Regards Huw


Olympus equipment
Capture One Pro
My flickr
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 30th December 2014
KeithL KeithL is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 4,942
Thanks: 366
Thanked 462 Times in 438 Posts
Likes: 1,462
Liked 1,382 Times in 810 Posts
Re: Lancaster Bomber - on board

I'm glad you all like the post; not many people get to see inside planes like this. I'll put the set of Vulcan shots on later. I have some of the Shackleton, Hastings, Canberra and one or two others, too. I have some more Lanc ones, too.

One thing that surprised me was that the controls are quite light; you wouldn't expect that. The stick particularly is quite a nice weight, damped probably by the wire ropes that connect it to the control surfaces, and I imagine it would be nice to fly.

BTW, I have a set of government instructional films on DVD that explain how to start and stop the engines on the Wellington; how to arm/disarm the guns and operate the Frazer-Nash turrets, load the ammunition belts etc. Titled "Target for Tonight", a propaganda film made I think in 1941, which is included. What really brings it alive is things like: it says you must close the turret doors behind you in the right order, or when you rotate the turret, you'll fall out, since they won't be latched! And don't drop the ammo belt hook, because you won't be able to reach it, and won't be able to load, cock, and fire the guns without it. Fascinating stuff. Definitely very different to the cinema films about it all!
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 30th December 2014
al_kaholik's Avatar
al_kaholik al_kaholik is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Winchester
Posts: 1,217
Thanks: 143
Thanked 136 Times in 125 Posts
Likes: 143
Liked 115 Times in 69 Posts
Re: Lancaster Bomber - on board

Excellent, please do. I've been in a Vulcan, hardly room to swing a cat
__________________
My Flickr
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 30th December 2014
KeithL KeithL is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 4,942
Thanks: 366
Thanked 462 Times in 438 Posts
Likes: 1,462
Liked 1,382 Times in 810 Posts
Re: Lancaster Bomber - on board

I reckon you could just about swing the cat...but you wouldn't be too popular if you did! I'll do me best to shrink 'em and post 'em.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to KeithL For This Useful Post:
al_kaholik (30th December 2014)
  #15  
Old 30th December 2014
Jim Ford Jim Ford is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Watford, Herts..
Posts: 8,572
Thanks: 470
Thanked 608 Times in 527 Posts
Likes: 2,756
Liked 1,684 Times in 1,084 Posts
Re: Lancaster Bomber - on board

I've posted this before:

At Pitstone Museum in Beds. you can go in an accurate reproduction of the front end of a Lancaster:

http://website.lineone.net/~norman.groom/

You can sit in the flight engineer's seat and flick the mag. switches on and 'start' each engine in turn (for authenticity, you ought to shout 'clear one', 'clear two' etc.!) You get a good sound of each engine starting in turn and ground idling. You can then advance the throttles to a satisfying roar (they reduced the original engine volume, because it used to frighten the kids!). The instruments all work, including the rev counters and oil pressure gauges. Close your eyes and you're on the way to Berlin!

It's well worth a visit!

Jim
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Which Lancaster? dogsbody Foto Fair 14 16th July 2014 05:17 PM
Stealth Bomber pandora Foto Fair 21 9th January 2011 05:16 PM
Fly a Lancaster! Jim Ford The lounge 3 5th July 2010 09:56 AM
Dive Bomber andym Foto Fair 6 23rd May 2010 12:51 PM
Lancaster bomber PA474 Wreckdiver Foto Fair 5 21st September 2009 09:26 PM


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:07 PM.


The Write Technology Ltd, 2007-2019, All rights reservedAd Management plugin by RedTyger