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Olympus OM-D E-M1X Olympus' OM-D model aimed squarely at professional photographers

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  #241  
Old 15th January 2019
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Re: New Olympus OMD - EM1X ?

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Originally Posted by Ross the fiddler View Post
I’m wondering if Olympus are thinking of bringing another model out, say E-M3 or E-M6.
That would be nice. I'd love an E-M1.1 sized body with a next generation sensor focusing on low noise at higher ISOs and hand held high-res for landscape etc. I understand why Oly are doing the E-M1X, mainly a statement in their 100th year, but they need to get on with the enthusiast stuff as they are getting forgotten in all the FF hype.
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  #242  
Old 15th January 2019
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Re: New Olympus OMD - EM1X ?

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That would be nice. I'd love an E-M1.1 sized body with a next generation sensor focusing on low noise at higher ISOs and hand held high-res for landscape etc. I understand why Oly are doing the E-M1X, mainly a statement in their 100th year, but they need to get on with the enthusiast stuff as they are getting forgotten in all the FF hype.
I know there is a lot of talk about hand-held hires, but does anyone think the current resolution expansion mode actually works hand-held, particularly if there is any movement in the subject?

I can imagine a more useful application of single image high-speed multi-exposure modes, as witnessed by the latest Huawei smartphones. These shoot multiple shots and then blend them into a single result, reducing noise and improving dynamic range while maintaining sharpness - rejecting motion-blurred details where possible., It also down-sizes resolution from the camera's 40 (yes 40) megapixels, to 10 megapixels. It works remarkably well.

Ian
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  #243  
Old 15th January 2019
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Re: New Olympus OMD - EM1X ?

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Originally Posted by Ian View Post
I know there is a lot of talk about hand-held hires, but does anyone think the current resolution expansion mode actually works hand-held, particularly if there is any movement in the subject?

I can imagine a more useful application of single image high-speed multi-exposure modes, as witnessed by the latest Huawei smartphones. These shoot multiple shots and then blend them into a single result, reducing noise and improving dynamic range while maintaining sharpness - rejecting motion-blurred details where possible., It also down-sizes resolution from the camera's 40 (yes 40) megapixels, to 10 megapixels. It works remarkably well.

Ian
What model of Huawei have you tried?
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  #244  
Old 15th January 2019
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Re: New Olympus OMD - EM1X ?

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Originally Posted by Ian View Post
I know there is a lot of talk about hand-held hires, but does anyone think the current resolution expansion mode actually works hand-held, particularly if there is any movement in the subject?

I can imagine a more useful application of single image high-speed multi-exposure modes, as witnessed by the latest Huawei smartphones. These shoot multiple shots and then blend them into a single result, reducing noise and improving dynamic range while maintaining sharpness - rejecting motion-blurred details where possible., It also down-sizes resolution from the camera's 40 (yes 40) megapixels, to 10 megapixels. It works remarkably well.

Ian
Absolutely Ian, camera makers are getting left for dead with smart AI like this. Existing M4/3 sensors would be far better adding AI like this, not to mention phone-like UIs! I'm nearly at the point of getting the Huawei P20 Pro. I'd prefer the wide angle camera on the Mate 20 Pro, but hate curved screens.
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  #245  
Old 15th January 2019
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Re: New Olympus OMD - EM1X ?

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What model of Huawei have you tried?
Mate 20 Pro and P20 Pro

The low light handheld performance is remarkable.

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  #246  
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Re: New Olympus OMD - EM1X ?

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Originally Posted by Phill D View Post
Yes that works now Ian minus the first image as you said thanks.
It will be interesting to see what the final specs are but somehow I don't see it as a large seller unless it has a much better sensor that could deliver close to FF image quality. Only that way could current committed FF users justify taking advantage of the lighter lenses.
While an improved sensor would always be welcomed, it's now quite low on my list of priorities.

As I think I mentioned - I visited the exhibition of the 2018 Wildlife Photographer of the Year exhibition at the Natural History Museum in London at the weekend. Cameras used by some finalists included a Nikon D200 (c.2005) and a Nikon D90 (2008) - the E-M1s have markedly superior sensors to both.

What we need is more talented photographers using the latest Olympus gear and winning prizes!

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  #247  
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Re: New Olympus OMD - EM1X ?

Of course our sensors are huge compared to smartphones so would require massive processing power to do comparable AI stuff. Readout speed wouldn't be as fast either.
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  #248  
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Re: New Olympus OMD - EM1X ?

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Originally Posted by Ian View Post
Mate 20 Pro and P20 Pro

The low light handheld performance is remarkable.

Ian
I am seriously tempted to change my phone for one, purely to use as a travel camera. Do you have any sample pics that show an image taken with an EM1mk2 vs a P20 Pro?
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  #249  
Old 15th January 2019
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Re: New Olympus OMD - EM1X ?

I can imagine that for subjects typically free from motion blur (landscape, architecture, stilleben...) then the hand-held hi-res feature supporting shutter times as low as 1/60s (rumoured) would be very useful.

Another potential application area could potentially be using multiple frames as input and then have the camera stack them after alignment in order to reduce noise artifacts and improve detail rendering. The challenge would be to achieve near perfect alignment through vertical and horizontal translation and potentially also rotation, which is CPU/GPU resource consuming; taking time, generating heat and draining battery. To mitigate this and make the alignment easier/take less time then the frames would need to be near identical to ease the task identifying features/details that are repeated across frames, which in turn imposes requirements; shorter shutter times and/or less delay between frames. Tripod use would make the task easier but then the point offering this feature in a handheld offering gets lost.

You can do this in desktop SW such as Registax, however offering it in the camera would be cool.
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  #250  
Old 15th January 2019
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Re: New Olympus OMD - EM1X ?

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Originally Posted by Tordan58 View Post
I can imagine that for subjects typically free from motion blur (landscape, architecture, stilleben...) then the hand-held hi-res feature supporting shutter times as low as 1/60s (rumoured) would be very useful.

Another potential application area could potentially be using multiple frames as input and then have the camera stack them after alignment in order to reduce noise artifacts and improve detail rendering. The challenge would be to achieve near perfect alignment through vertical and horizontal translation and potentially also rotation, which is CPU/GPU resource consuming; taking time, generating heat and draining battery. To mitigate this and make the alignment easier/take less time then the frames would need to be near identical to ease the task identifying features/details that are repeated across frames, which in turn imposes requirements; shorter shutter times and/or less delay between frames. Tripod use would make the task easier but then the point offering this feature in a handheld offering gets lost.

You can do this in desktop SW such as Registax, however offering it in the camera would be cool.
Phones, as already mentioned, are actually doing this right now.

Ian
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  #251  
Old 16th January 2019
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Re: New Olympus OMD - EM1X ?

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Of course our sensors are huge compared to smartphones so would require massive processing power to do comparable AI stuff. Readout speed wouldn't be as fast either.
Not really. The physical size of the sensor is irrelevant as the CPU-intensive work is done on the data once extracted from the sensor.

Huawei phones that use AI for enhanced imaging in this way have higher (40 megapixel) sensors as well, so they actually have to manage more data. They do, however, have dedicated 'neural' processing units built-in to their chip-sets.

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  #252  
Old 16th January 2019
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Re: New Olympus OMD - EM1X ?

I always thought 'size matters', but in micro electronics smaller leads to higher integration and shorter inner connectivity - there are consequences to this, but non the less manageable. It's interesting to study limit conditions. If the sensor is made ever smaller with decreasing photon wells 'depth', eg a single atom, there are consequences. At limit condition where well dimensions go off the page, as it were, transmission issues are likely to dominate. Mathematics and the 'state of the art' in micro electronics allows us to optimally size the sensor.
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  #253  
Old 16th January 2019
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Re: New Olympus OMD - EM1X ?

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I always thought 'size matters', but in micro electronics smaller leads to higher integration and shorter inner connectivity - there are consequences to this, but non the less manageable. It's interesting to study limit conditions. If the sensor is made ever smaller with decreasing photon wells 'depth', eg a single atom, there are consequences. At limit condition where well dimensions go off the page, as it were, transmission issues are likely to dominate. Mathematics and the 'state of the art' in micro electronics allows us to optimally size the sensor.
Not sure if you were reacting to my post but while the sensor size does, as you say, relate to photon capture ability, my point was that the AI multi-frame blending process now being seen in phones is independent of sensor size as it works on the data after it has been transferred off the sensor.

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Re: New Olympus OMD - EM1X ?

Yes I understood what you were talking about Ian.
Phones are designed to be pocketable and the average punter is only interested in adequate quality for putting up on social media. Cameras on the other hand don’t and shouldn’t have to compromise, unless the prime consideration is weight or cost, or both.
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Old 16th January 2019
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Re: New Olympus OMD - EM1X ?

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Originally Posted by Bruce Clarke View Post
That would be nice. I'd love an E-M1.1 sized body with a next generation sensor focusing on low noise at higher ISOs and hand held high-res for landscape etc. I understand why Oly are doing the E-M1X, mainly a statement in their 100th year, but they need to get on with the enthusiast stuff as they are getting forgotten in all the FF hype.
Totally agree. Whilst I'm generally very happy with my Oly gear it has to be said that its limitations become clear at higher ISO. I took some group shots in a dim bar for work and needed ISO 3200 to get even a half-decent shutter speed (and using the 17/1.8 wide open). Eye and hair detail is completely lost/smudged.

I'd also like some more DR. I often shoot a 5-shot bracket (-2, -1, 0, +1, +2) and stack later. That gives great DR, but it's a pain in PP and there are always occasions when stacking won't work - even in relatively slow-moving scenes.

I played with the Nikon Z6 and the Sony A7iii in B&H earlier this week and with their respective kit zooms attached (24-70/4 and 28-70/4 respectively) they are hardly bigger than the E-M1ii + 12-40. I realise that once you get to longer lenses mu43 has a size/weight advantage, but at shorter focal lengths the difference is much less.

I've tried Sony A7 before and didn't like its operation and features, but the Z6 did seem to be apparently better. At $2000 body only, it'll likely be cheaper than the E-M1x too. I'm not considering the Nikon in any way at all, but I really would love to see an improved sensor (or multi-frame computation) in an Oly camera soon.
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