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View Poll Results: Are you getting fed up with Brexit and should we go back to discussing other things ?
YES - Close the thread 21 47.73%
NO - Keep the debate going on for eternity 23 52.27%
Voters: 44. You may not vote on this poll

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  #2161  
Old 20th November 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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Originally Posted by Jim Ford View Post
Risible!

Jim
Risible, how many times have you said that on here to anything that you don't like. You seem to think if you just ignore the news because it doesn't fit your biased view it will go away ? Lets call it risible and that's it, fixed
How about putting a counter argument ?

Whats your view on what he actually said and the implied subsequent changes.
Your response seems to say The EU Empire and its army are what we should be a part of? - If this is your view then I respect that but at least be open and honest.

I guess you are another Remainer who is happy to live in Admin Region 5B of the great empire and pay your taxes and send your children to support its fabulous army?

" George Orwell's - 1984" is where the EU is heading and I for one don't want to be part of it.
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  #2162  
Old 20th November 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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Originally Posted by Zuiko View Post
Absolutely shocking! If you replace the words "Europe" and "European" with "Britain" and "British" it would read like something out of the Leavers manifesto!
But it wasn't, it was said by the current French Finance Minister - Today.

So I guess can I put you down as the third Remainer on here happy to live in Admin Region 5b of the Great EU Empire and have your children conscripted to the EU army? We just keep paying them money and all will be fine ?

George Orwells 1984 is your ideal world it seems.
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  #2163  
Old 20th November 2018
Jim Ford Jim Ford is offline
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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Originally Posted by wornish View Post
Risible, how many times have you said that on here to anything that you don't like.
I don't recall ever using it in this thread, but feel free to count up and inform me. If you'd like an alternative (that I'm sure that I haven't used before) how about 'egregious drivel'?

Quote:
Whats your view on what he actually said and the implied subsequent changes.
Your response seems to say The EU Empire and its army are what we should be a part of? - If this is your view then I respect that but at least be open and honest.
My view is that you should be honest and stop writing 'Empire', which as I've pointed out is not the same as 'empire' which was in the text. I can't find the original French text, but it may well be that the original word that was translated into 'empire' does not carry the same connotations when an alternative but equally valid translation into English is used.

Jim
  #2164  
Old 20th November 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

I can sort of see what the French Finance Minister is talking about. In a geopolitical sense he's right. Being part of a bigger economic block against China and the US makes sense. I also see the sense of wanting to belong to a wider European cultural group. We ARE Europeans. That doesn't stop me being British too. In fact, being British, in my view,
also means being tolerant and pragmatic, quantities that should endorse and not reject the EU as a force for good.

We have played a huge part in shaping the EU and if we look forward to the challenges of the coming century (the continuing rise of China, global warming, the resurgence of fascism and populism) it seems obvious to me that we'd be better off facing those challenges in the European club rather than trying to face them alone.

The problem of course with the "European Project" is the extent to which this agenda is pursued. I personally am relaxed about ceding some powers to the EU. I think the Brexit brigade make too much of the loss of power element, but I understand that the logical conclusion that some in the EU want will not suit everyone in the UK (nor France, Germany etc). But I think the overall concept of the EU is worth having - and Britain can play a part in moderating negative tendencies - such as Germany and France trying to gang up and dominate the rest. Sitting outside in splendid isolation won't help if political Armageddon in Europe ensues. We've played that game before.

As to a European army. If it's the same construct as the UN, then why not? Whether I'd want it to replace the British Army is another matter and I wouldn't want to endorse that - at least not until we achieved a much larger degree of political union than we have (or had before Brexit).
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  #2165  
Old 20th November 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

Quote:
Originally Posted by wornish View Post
But it wasn't, it was said by the current French Finance Minister - Today.

So I guess can I put you down as the third Remainer on here happy to live in Admin Region 5b of the Great EU Empire and have your children conscripted to the EU army? We just keep paying them money and all will be fine ?

George Orwells 1984 is your ideal world it seems.
Ironically, if we had kept full membership we could have used our veto to prevent most that stuff from happening - if it ever became an issue!

Children conscripted to the EU army - now who's engaging in project fear? I must say you hold some "interesting" opinions!
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  #2166  
Old 21st November 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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Originally Posted by pdk42 View Post
I can sort of see what the French Finance Minister is talking about. In a geopolitical sense he's right. Being part of a bigger economic block against China and the US makes sense.
............................


The problem of course with the "European Project" is the extent to which this agenda is pursued. I personally am relaxed about ceding some powers to the EU. I think the Brexit brigade make too much of the loss of power element, but I understand that the logical conclusion that some in the EU want will not suit everyone in the UK (nor France, Germany etc). But I think the overall concept of the EU is worth having - and Britain can play a part in moderating negative tendencies - such as Germany and France trying to gang up and dominate the rest. Sitting outside in splendid isolation won't help if political Armageddon in Europe ensues. We've played that game before.

As to a European army. If it's the same construct as the UN, then why not? Whether I'd want it to replace the British Army is another matter and I wouldn't want to endorse that - at least not until we achieved a much larger degree of political union than we have (or had before Brexit).


You make some valid points so wont put you down as a full member of the George Orwell 1984 camp of remainers. If his book title was updated to 2024 it would be pretty close to describing where the EU is heading.

Ministry of Truth (Minitrue). - Controls how information distributed the masses

Ministry of Peace (Minipax) - The armed forces to defend the state .

Ministry of Plenty (Miniplenty) - regulates the supply of goods.

Ministry of Love (Miniluuv) - Enforce loyalty and love of Big Brother through fear and brainwashing.



I totally support the concept of a Common Market which could continue to work without the four freedoms. But I certainly do not support the EU as a federal state. If we could get back to the former without its four freedoms there would be overwhelming support.
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  #2167  
Old 21st November 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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Originally Posted by wornish View Post
... so wont put you down as a full member of the George Orwell 1984 camp of remainers.
Not so fast...
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  #2168  
Old 21st November 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

In the 90s I was getting very concerned of the direction that the UK government was progressing re control of the population and my thoughts were that the EU concepts then under discussion sounded less restrictive than the proposals being made in the UK.

So to the Brexiteer be careful of what you wish for re personal liberty, the UK will be going going down the same path as the EU and probably the UK path will be steeper with less handholds.
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  #2169  
Old 21st November 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

I saw mention of ID cards somewhere recently - bring it on.
  #2170  
Old 21st November 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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Originally Posted by Jim Ford View Post
I don't recall ever using it in this thread, but feel free to count up and inform me. If you'd like an alternative (that I'm sure that I haven't used before) how about 'egregious drivel'?



My view is that you should be honest and stop writing 'Empire', which as I've pointed out is not the same as 'empire' which was in the text. I can't find the original French text, but it may well be that the original word that was translated into 'empire' does not carry the same connotations when an alternative but equally valid translation into English is used.

Jim
I was curious Jim about how many times you have used the word. All I could find was in a google search Jim of when you used the word risible once and that was on 4 November 2017 in the acid attack discussion.
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  #2171  
Old 21st November 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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Originally Posted by Gate Keeper View Post
I was curious Jim about how many times you have used the word. All I could find was in a google search Jim of when you used the word risible once and that was on 4 November 2017 in the acid attack discussion.
Thank you so much for that vital piece of information.

Jax
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  #2172  
Old 21st November 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

I see the half glass empty brigade are in again desperate for good news about Brexit.........

There isnít any!
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  #2173  
Old 21st November 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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Originally Posted by Gate Keeper View Post
I was curious Jim about how many times you have used the word. All I could find was in a google search Jim of when you used the word risible once and that was on 4 November 2017 in the acid attack discussion.
I knew I was not mistaken

Look at Post #642 14th Aug 2018 in this thread.

Also, in other threads as you say.
First one way back in Aug 2008.
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Old 21st November 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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I see the half glass empty brigade....
Damn! Now Iím even more confused. Is it only half a glass, or is it half glass and half something else? And whatever it is, is it completely empty? We must be told.
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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Originally Posted by wornish View Post
I knew I was not mistaken

Look at Post #642 14th Aug 2018 in this thread.

Also, in other threads as you say.
First one way back in Aug 2008.
According to Jax, itís a vital piece of information. Risible.

Could we try other words or get it blacklisted
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