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View Poll Results: Are you getting fed up with Brexit and should we go back to discussing other things ?
YES - Close the thread 21 47.73%
NO - Keep the debate going on for eternity 23 52.27%
Voters: 44. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1996  
Old 15th November 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

Doesn' t take long for this thread to go in to personal attack mode does it?

Calling people names solves nothing, IMHO.
Disagreeing with what politicians say or do is fine and even better if backed up with an alternative argument or proposed action.
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  #1997  
Old 15th November 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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Originally Posted by Zuiko View Post
She has the most important quality of any politician - resilience. She has already survived drinking from the poisoned chalice whilst others dare not even let it touch their lips. I don't see too many of her critics putting themselves forward for her job!
Spot on John.

I heard a Labour MP today saying that TM should call an election so that Labour could negotiate with the EU. What?

Labour found themselves incapable of supporting David Cameron ahead of the referendum, and nobody from any side raised questions about the NI border or anything else for that matter. But for these factors I have no doubt that we would have voted to remain.

Does Labour seriously believe they could negotiate a better deal now?

TM has one big advantage over most of her cohorts. She is well aware that Brexit is a poison chalice and she just wants to get the job done. At her age, and whatever the outcome it is highly unlikely that she will want to remain as PM for very long after March next year.

TM stepped in when Boris and other shafted themselves after the referendum vote. Nobody hoping for a long term political career would have touched it with a bargepole, which is precisely why nobody with any sense would want the job right now!
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  #1998  
Old 15th November 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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Originally Posted by wornish View Post
Doesn' t take long for this thread to go in to personal attack mode does it?

Calling people names solves nothing, IMHO.
Disagreeing with what politicians say or do is fine and even better if backed up with an alternative argument or proposed action.
I can only presume that you are referring to the bit of banter about JRM between myself and Tim?? Well maybe it is all about perception and I perceive that you don't demonstrate quite the same concerns when certain Labour politicians get similar treatment. But of course, I may be wrong....
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Old 15th November 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

Quote:
Originally Posted by wornish View Post
Doesn' t take long for this thread to go in to personal attack mode does it?

Calling people names solves nothing, IMHO.
Disagreeing with what politicians say or do is fine and even better if backed up with an alternative argument or proposed action.
Do you mean my comments re JRM? The mans an utter tw@. Most things he says and does deserve derision, sorry about that!
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Old 15th November 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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Originally Posted by Naughty Nigel View Post
Spot on John.

I heard a Labour MP today saying that TM should call an election so that Labour could negotiate with the EU. What?

Labour found themselves incapable of supporting David Cameron ahead of the referendum, and nobody from any side raised questions about the NI border or anything else for that matter. But for these factors I have no doubt that we would have voted to remain.

Does Labour seriously believe they could negotiate a better deal now?

TM has one big advantage over most of her cohorts. She is well aware that Brexit is a poison chalice and she just wants to get the job done. At her age, and whatever the outcome it is highly unlikely that she will want to remain as PM for very long after March next year.

TM stepped in when Boris and other shafted themselves after the referendum vote. Nobody hoping for a long term political career would have touched it with a bargepole, which is precisely why nobody with any sense would want the job right now!
Absolutely. Labour keep calling for a General Election... well they must, they can hardly say they don't want one can they? But privately, I'm sure, it's the last thing Corbyn wants at the moment. Why risk coming to power during one of the most unstable and uncertain periods of our history since the English Civil War? Surely it's better to let the Tories continue to tear themselves apart and at the same time take all the risks associated with Brexit? Once that's over and the blame has firmly stuck, and the Conservatives have essentially split into two opposing parties, then will be the time for Labour to fight an election. For now, all they need to do is settle down with a bag of popcorn and enjoy the spectacle.
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  #2001  
Old 15th November 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

It’s a shame Labour have no real politicians amongst their ranks, if they had then they would be romping ahead in polls but as you said John, now probably isn’t the best of times to take the reins!
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  #2002  
Old 15th November 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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Originally Posted by Zuiko View Post
Absolutely. Labour keep calling for a General Election... well they must, they can hardly say they don't want one can they? But privately, I'm sure, it's the last thing Corbyn wants at the moment. Why risk coming to power during one of the most unstable and uncertain periods of our history since the English Civil War? Surely it's better to let the Tories continue to tear themselves apart and at the same time take all the risks associated with Brexit? Once that's over and the blame has firmly stuck, and the Conservatives have essentially split into two opposing parties, then will be the time for Labour to fight an election. For now, all they need to do is settle down with a bag of popcorn and enjoy the spectacle.
Would it be too much to hope that enough members of both parties could form a new, centralist party to act in the national interest rather than having loonies from one end of the spectrum running the show?

As for JRM, I suspect a lot of hostility is caused by the way he speaks rather than by what he says. Good diction, or even speaking face to face has become deeply unfashionable in the Facebook age.
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  #2003  
Old 15th November 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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Originally Posted by TimP View Post
Do you mean my comments re JRM? The mans an utter tw@. Most things he says and does deserve derision, sorry about that!
http://newsthump.com/2018/11/15/coup...cob-rees-mogg/

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  #2004  
Old 15th November 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

Let's remind ourselves of a few myths about the EU peddled by the Brexiters:
https://www.richardcorbett.org.uk/category/mythbusters/

A list of Leave lies told during the campaign:
https://www.richardcorbett.org.uk/long-list-leave-lies/

A list of little things that may also be important but have not seen much coverage:
https://www.richardcorbett.org.uk/lo...little-things/

Each of the lies and little things are clickable links which explain the evidence and detail.


That is the website of the MEP Richard Corbett who ought to have a better idea than most of how the EU works:

"I'm Leader of the Labour Members of the European Parliament, part of the centre-left Socialists & Democrats group. I was first elected as an MEP in 1996, and I’ve represented Yorkshire & the Humber since 1999.
I am Vice Chair of UK European Movement and also Chair in the European Parliament of the Labour Movement for Europe."
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  #2005  
Old 15th November 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto View Post
Let's remind ourselves of a few myths about the EU peddled by the Brexiters:
https://www.richardcorbett.org.uk/category/mythbusters/

A list of Leave lies told during the campaign:
https://www.richardcorbett.org.uk/long-list-leave-lies/

A list of little things that may also be important but have not seen much coverage:
https://www.richardcorbett.org.uk/lo...little-things/

Each of the lies and little things are clickable links which explain the evidence and detail.


That is the website of the MEP Richard Corbett who ought to have a better idea than most of how the EU works:

"I'm Leader of the Labour Members of the European Parliament, part of the centre-left Socialists & Democrats group. I was first elected as an MEP in 1996, and I’ve represented Yorkshire & the Humber since 1999.
I am Vice Chair of UK European Movement and also Chair in the European Parliament of the Labour Movement for Europe."


I just had a quick look at his first link. The first three points he makes in this section are just not true.

He claims the EU only makes 13% of our laws but if you follow through to the deeper analysis on FullFact its actually between 13% and 65% depending on how its measured.

He claims the EU don't force their will on member countries what ?
ask Greece, ask Cypress ask Ireland. I could go on, how many referendums did they force on them? Italy can't even pass its own budget this year.

He claims the EU laws are not made by unelected bureaucrats but they actually are. The bureaucrats are not elected by the public, and can not be removed by them either.

I will stop at that. All he is doing is trying to protect his gravy train of a job and his gold plated pension.

Probably find that the EU funds his website on expenses as well.
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  #2006  
Old 15th November 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

Having just listened to the news conference given by Theresa May, it’s clear to me that she is going to see Brexit through to the bitter end and as far as she is concerned there will be no second referendum, no matter what and no matter what her critics say. That is how it is. I am not one of her fans, despite my comments.
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  #2007  
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Naughty Nigel View Post
Would it be too much to hope that enough members of both parties could form a new, centralist party to act in the national interest rather than having loonies from one end of the spectrum running the show?

As for JRM, I suspect a lot of hostility is caused by the way he speaks rather than by what he says. Good diction, or even speaking face to face has become deeply unfashionable in the Facebook age.
Dealing with the second point regarding JRM first if I may. If only it was that simple. Whilst, for some people I suspect you may well be correct I personally regard much of what he says as the problem along with the staggering arrogance and pomposity with which it is presented. He presents this persona of being oh so terribly reasonable when the opposite, IMHO, is the case. Any man who can publicly state that a raped women should not have the right to choose an abortion if she so wishes deserves nothing but contempt. I do acknowledge that he qualified the statement by saying that he would not seek to push such a law through parliament and for that he deserves some measure of respect. He also earns my respect for being consistent, even if I dislike what he is consistent about, but that fact that he holds such views is reason to question his whole outlook on life.

As regards the centre party. Oh yes please.

Both main parties have shown they are only interested in their own power base, as both individuals and and parties, to the detriment of UK plc. The Tories lead in that particular race but Labour are only a hairs breadth behind. Neither are likely to get my vote as long as I remain on the earth unless one or both show massive change which I consider unlikely.


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  #2008  
Old 15th November 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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Originally Posted by Gate Keeper View Post
it’s clear to me that she is going to see Brexit through to the bitter end and as far as she is concerned there will be no second referendum
Excellent ! A second referendum, or a third or fourth, would not be democratic

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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Naughty Nigel View Post
Would it be too much to hope that enough members of both parties could form a new, centralist party to act in the national interest rather than having loonies from one end of the spectrum running the show?

As for JRM, I suspect a lot of hostility is caused by the way he speaks rather than by what he says. Good diction, or even speaking face to face has become deeply unfashionable in the Facebook age.
‘National interest’ ? Shouldn’t that have been a priority from the word go?? No, seriously, Brexit seems to have been an excuse for political point scoring when it should have brought the nation and its politicians together to sort it out properly. Teresa May has probably faced the hardest job of any PM in the post war years yet she has had to battle against a bunch of useless ‘here today, gone tomorrow’ (to quote a phrase from 1982) self seeking prats. Good for her for seemingly sticking it out to the bitter end (irrespective of your political views, she must take credit where the other worthless saps deserve none)
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  #2010  
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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Originally Posted by Jax View Post
Excellent ! A second referendum, or a third or fourth, would not be democratic
We get a 'referendum' on the government at least every 4 years - it's called a General Election' and is considered to be democratic!

Jim
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