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The lounge Relax, take a break from photo and camera talk - have a chat about something else for a change. Just keep it clean and polite!

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  #31  
Old 2nd February 2015
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Re: Oh dear - I had a play with the Fuji XT1 today...

Fair comment. I missed out the word "digital". So what? I repeat, it's none of your business.

And you yourself have posted many a photo not taken with Olympus digital, including extolling the praises of Samsung phone cameras.
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  #32  
Old 2nd February 2015
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Re: Oh dear - I had a play with the Fuji XT1 today...

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Originally Posted by StephenL View Post
Fair comment. I missed out the word "digital". So what? I repeat, it's none of your business.
When you make an open statement like that in thread #30, then you are making it anyone's business.
Quote:
And you yourself have posted many a photo not taken with Olympus digital, including extolling the praises of Samsung phone cameras.
Haven't you commented here in one of your threads that you still own a couple of Pens which are digital cameras.
And yes, I have posted the odd photo not taken with Olympus, but never as a non Oly owner, which is the point of difference I have been making here.
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  #33  
Old 2nd February 2015
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Re: Oh dear - I had a play with the Fuji XT1 today...

Anyway Stephen, I've expressed my opinion and I've no more to say on this topic.

I hope we can close on a less adversarial note
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  #34  
Old 2nd February 2015
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Re: Oh dear - I had a play with the Fuji XT1 today...

Well, Mark, I have got more to say. I'm fed up with this constant sniping against Stephen, who has done nothing wrong. It's not like he is a non-Olympus owning newbie who has joined the forum just to troll. He has many years experience of owning and using Olympus products to share with this forum and does a magnificent job of moderating the site, constantly dealing with the spammers that most folk never see because it's nipped in the bud. His picture thread was harmless and did not in any way denigrate Olympus. You may well choose to second guess what Olympus UK may wish to see or not see on this site, but until they issue some clear guidence on this and many other simmering issues us mods will have to take a common sense approach and we reserve the right to make policy decisions that may not please everyone. We don't always enjoy being piggy in the middle, but we do our best.
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  #35  
Old 2nd February 2015
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Re: Oh dear - I had a play with the Fuji XT1 today...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuiko View Post
Well, Mark, I have got more to say. I'm fed up with this constant sniping against Stephen, who has done nothing wrong. It's not like he is a non-Olympus owning newbie who has joined the forum just to troll. He has many years experience of owning and using Olympus products to share with this forum and does a magnificent job of moderating the site, constantly dealing with the spammers that most folk never see because it's nipped in the bud. His picture thread was harmless and did not in any way denigrate Olympus. You may well choose to second guess what Olympus UK may wish to see or not see on this site, but until they issue some clear guidence on this and many other simmering issues us mods will have to take a common sense approach and we reserve the right to make policy decisions that may not please everyone. We don't always enjoy being piggy in the middle, but we do our best.
Hats off to you two mods, I agree you are both dealing with the site well.

Thanks for doing so.

Regards. Barr1e

ps you both owe me a pint when next we meet. B
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  #36  
Old 2nd February 2015
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Re: Oh dear - I had a play with the Fuji XT1 today...

Probably referring to me! I would say in MY defence that I joined this forum when I owned an E510 and 3 semi-pro lenses, and if it hadn't been for Olympus abandoning its user base when it shut down its dslr line, saying you either buy an E5 or a Pen, I'd probably still be an Oly user! So I was effectively pushed elsewhere, against my wishes, and I'm out of pocket as a result. I've stayed on this forum because of its friendly atmosphere, more of a family really, and I've generally only responded on non-brand issues. On this ocasion I was responding to Paul's post.

However, there is life outside of Oly loyalty! Many brands are equally capable, it all comes down to personal preferences based often on subtle differences in feature set. The thing is, though, that it costs serious money to "jump ship", and once a user is lost, he/she is unlikely to return.

It needs to be said.

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  #37  
Old 2nd February 2015
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Re: Oh dear - I had a play with the Fuji XT1 today...

Oh dear - I seem to have stirred up some deep emotions which was not in the least what I was trying to do. I feel for Olympus - their camera division is battling some pretty severe storms (aka smartphones and the death of point and shots) and yet they're still innovating and trying to capture market share. They can't possibly please everyone all the time and of course the competition is fierce.

Personally, I totally understand their decision to get out of the 4/3 DSLR market - the bodies were not competitive with the Canon and Nikon alternatives of their time (the lenses are a different story of course). The u43 format on the other hand IS competitive and Oly is playing the market very well. The E-M1 is not perfect with 4/3 lenses, but it shows that Oly cared enough to bring its 4/3 user base with it.

If I do buy some Fuji gear, I will keep a foot in the Oly camp. However, I'm not yet 100% sure I'll do it - when all's said and done, the best camera in the world is the one you have with you and the compactness of u43 makes carting gear around a much easier task. As nice as the Fuji system is, the lenses are still on the large size. Photo gear is all about compromises isn't it?
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  #38  
Old 2nd February 2015
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Re: Oh dear - I had a play with the Fuji XT1 today...

You've some lovely Olympus lenses which would cost a lot to replicate in another system but you could consider doing what I did....dip a toe into Fuji waters by buying something not in the current m43 system....an X100(or variant thereof). It's a different experience, capable of fantastic results, makes you slow down and think, and complements an interchangeable lens camera very nicely.

Enjoy - whichever route you choose!

Jon
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  #39  
Old 3rd February 2015
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Re: Oh dear - I had a play with the Fuji XT1 today...

Quote:
Originally Posted by pdk42 View Post
Personally, I totally understand their decision to get out of the 4/3 DSLR market - the bodies were not competitive with the Canon and Nikon alternatives of their time (the lenses are a different story of course).
I couldn't agree more Paul. In fact I embraced mirrorless cameras right from the start, but at that time Oly didn't have a suitable product to offer me, nor was it clear which way they were going to go, and how long it would take. And knowing that the gestation period for new Oly offspring is generally lengthy I wasn't prepared to wait, and moved to the Lumix G1. A partial jumping ship, so to speak, but after that I disposed of all my Oly products.

But I became thwarted yet again by Panny, as their GH2 successor (the GH3, which used the EM-5 sensor) was too large for me. So I could have jumped back to Oly with their EM-1, or bite the bullet and look elsewhere. And that is what I did, for various reasons, though the feeling of "once bitten, twice shy" did enter into the decision making process!

Anyway, enough of this spleen venting. Checking out the "opposition" is healthy, and you shouldn't feel bad about it, even if your wallet does Just remember, nothing is for life, things move on, whether we like it or not.
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  #40  
Old 3rd February 2015
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Re: Oh dear - I had a play with the Fuji XT1 today...

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In return I would like Olympus to respond to our comments or criticisms of Olympus products especially with reference to functions and ease of use.

Number 1 gripe being the inability to load new firmware via a memory card so that multiple items can be updated with only one download being involved.

Number 2 gripe regarding the ability to store menu settings in a readable format and to have the ability to update the menu settings after a major firmware upgrade.

These items have been hot topics for years and no response from Olympus apart the UK staff commenting that they wish these features were available.
Here is an official response from the webmaster (that's me, by the way).

This site is operated by my company, the Write Technology Ltd, and it has backing from Olympus UK, both technical and financial, although the funding does not cover all our costs. The site was established jointly by myself at the suggestion of Mark Thackara at Olympus UK. It is not an official Olympus owned and operated site but it was created to support Olympus users and their relationship with Olympus UK.

We operate this site with respect to its raison-d'etre that is to provide an online community for the discussion of Olympus system camera and related topics and in relation to the site's one and only commercial patron, Olympus UK. Therefore, we do need to operate the site with a level of respect and sensibility towards Olympus UK.

So what does that mean?

It does not mean that we ban any mention of other brands in discussions. It does not mean that we ban any reasoned criticism or complaint about Olympus. But at the same time we need to be balanced and respect the core nature of this site.

This site is not really editorially independent. It is designed to satisfy the needs of people who are either thinking of buying or already using Olympus gear, sourced from Olympus UK. If you wish to have a full-blown (but reasoned) debate about the advantages of a rival system, this site may not be the best place to do that. Our sibling site, Four Thirds User, is completely independent so that may be a better place to conduct such a debate, although we would reject malicious promotion of non FT/MFT gear there, too.

What all this boils down to is that if you have something to say about an alternative brand, make it brief and to the point and where possible balance your comments carefully. Be aware of the fact that content you post like this may be interpreted as being unreasonable on this site.

I am currently reviewing our terms and conditions to reflect the above so that myself and the forum moderators can have a better benchmark to work to when having to deal with contentious discussions here.

So what about the origination of this particular thread? I would have though twice about posting it. While Fuji sensors have undeniably attractive features, they have also been criticised by testers I have a great deal of respect for. There is no such thing as a perfect sensor or a perfect camera. That point needs to be underscored whenever we have a discussion like this.

So, please exercise a level of diplomacy, thank you.

Ian
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  #41  
Old 3rd February 2015
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Re: Oh dear - I had a play with the Fuji XT1 today...

With regard to specific feedback about camera features and functionality, unfortunately, it's very difficult to get promises concerning wishes and suggestions that are aired here - not just from Olympus but from any camera manufacturer, in my experience. Where you do see reaction it is almost always because the engineers had already thought of the same thing so it was already in the pipeline or even just recently delivered. But it is the nature of all camera companies to keep quiet about developments until they are ready.

What I can say is that I do know that your suggestions do get through to product planners and engineers at Olympus. This was one reason why I was invited to meet these very people at Olympus in Tokyo 18 months ago. Please also understand that many of your suggestions, while sounding very logical, may not be easy to engineer and even if they are, it takes time and ideas may only appear in new models rather than existing ones - there are limits to firmware updates.

Ian
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  #42  
Old 3rd February 2015
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Re: Oh dear - I had a play with the Fuji XT1 today...

I would also like to say a word in support of Stephen, who continues as an enthusiastic and supportive moderator here despite the fact that he has (for the time being!) chosen to invest in a rival brand of camera gear. His knowledge of Olympus gear is rich and he continues to own and use Olympus cameras. The fact that he wants to continue as an e-group moderator should be seen as a big thumbs up to Olympus and our online community here from him.

Ian
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  #43  
Old 3rd February 2015
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Re: Oh dear - I had a play with the Fuji XT1 today...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian View Post
So what about the origination of this particular thread? I would have though twice about posting it.
Ian - thanks for the guidance here and sincere apologies for posting inappropriate material. I realise that creating more and more rules is usually unnecessary and counterproductive, but some public position on what we can and can't say about Olympus would I think be helpful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian View Post
While Fuji sensors have undeniably attractive features, they have also been criticised by testers I have a great deal of respect for. There is no such thing as a perfect sensor or a perfect camera. That point needs to be underscored whenever we have a discussion like this.
I think I made this very point actually - both in my follow up post on NR and loss of detail from the Fuji shots and also in my later post about camera size where I made the point that photographic equipment is all about compromises.

I'll also post this link too for discussion. It's an interesting critique on xtrans sensors. Whether it's the one you were thinking of I don't know, but some of the points he's making are borne out in the limited pixel peeping I've done.

https://plus.google.com/app/basic/st...z4kudwbob0l00k
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  #44  
Old 3rd February 2015
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Re: Oh dear - I had a play with the Fuji XT1 today...

Hi there everyone!

I have read this post and others recently, and whilst the object of this forum is to discuss Olympus cameras I can see value to Olympus of comparisons to other cameras. How are Olympus going to find out what features or abilities may tempt us away without our feedback? Surely all feedback to Olympus is valuable, not simply positive feedback?

I do use (one) other make of camera occasionally, and have even on one occasion posted images from it here, but that doesn't mean that I don't value my (seven) Olympus cameras, and I find that for my usage they are the best compromise. That doesn't mean that I don't see the value of other brands - they're just not for me. I hope that Ian and Olympus UK realise that sometimes even unflattering comparisons with other brands can only help to make the Olympus brand stronger.

On another note it is really good to see you back posting on here Ian!

Cheers,

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Old 4th February 2015
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Re: Oh dear - I had a play with the Fuji XT1 today...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian View Post
I would also like to say a word in support of Stephen, The fact that he wants to continue as an e-group moderator should be seen as a big thumbs up to Olympus and our online community here from him.

Ian
Could not agree more,

Thank you Stephen for everything you continue to do, and of course also Ian and John.

Kind regards, Simon
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