Olympus UK E-System User Group
Olympus UK E-System User Group

Join our unique resource for Olympus Four Thirds E-System DSLR and Pen and OM-D Micro Four Thirds photographers. Show your images via our free e-group photo gallery. Please read the e-group.uk.net forum terms and conditions before posting for the first time. Above all, welcome!


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  #1  
Old 26th December 2008
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Bill Gordon Bill Gordon is offline
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Cameras

I was just over at Chris (chillimonster) site and enjoyed very much his images. He is shooting with a Nikon D700 and doing quite well with it, but I would like to say to everyone who is star struck with all the Canikons and Olys, Fujis and all the rest.......you all know, don't you that it isn't the camera that takes the picture ... its the person standing behind the camera, so no matter what you own, would like to own, or don't like for one reason or another just remember the words of wisdom that this old man just spoke of

Cheers, belated Merry Christmas and early Happy and Healthy New Year!!
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  #2  
Old 26th December 2008
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Re: Cameras

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Gordon View Post
I was just over at Chris (chillimonster) site and enjoyed very much his images. He is shooting with a Nikon D700 and doing quite well with it, but I would like to say to everyone who is star struck with all the Canikons and Olys, Fujis and all the rest.......you all know, don't you that it isn't the camera that takes the picture ... its the person standing behind the camera, so no matter what you own, would like to own, or don't like for one reason or another just remember the words of wisdom that this old man just spoke of

Cheers, belated Merry Christmas and early Happy and Healthy New Year!!
Hi Bill,

Thanks for the Guestbook entry over on Zenfolio, its really appreciated

Like you say its the person behind the camera that counts, but i feel that you need to be 'at-one' with the system you are using to be able to get the best out of it. That is where i am at at the moment with the D700. The system is working in a way i wished the E-3 could have done for me. I understand and appreciate that some people feel the same about the Oly system, but i struggled on and really liked it but it just didn't have the certain somenthing that allowed us (the camera and myself) to 'click' as a pair.

I still find myself cropping the 4:3 out of habbit (and lightroom preset!), and miss the in built IS of the Oly system, but the positives i am getting from the combo i am shooting are outweighing the negatives.

It is very narrow-minded of some camera users that 'knock' the users of other systems, when they have never experienced them, when we are all in pursuit of the same thing - the 'perfect' image.





Chris
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  #3  
Old 27th December 2008
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Re: Cameras

IMHO both Bill and Chris are right - you have to know how to use the tools and then you have to find the particular tool that fits you - but then we all know that from life ... many of us can drive but how do we choose our car ... bet you we all have a list of 'I dont want one of them'
Shame that Chris didnt become comfortable with an Oly system but hopefully Oly are taking this info on board from here and other places of comment ... he may come back one day
Hope you are all enjoying the festive season...
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  #4  
Old 27th December 2008
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Re: Cameras

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Originally Posted by crimbo View Post
IMHO both Bill and Chris are right - you have to know how to use the tools and then you have to find the particular tool that fits you - but then we all know that from life ... many of us can drive but how do we choose our car ... bet you we all have a list of 'I dont want one of them'
Shame that Chris didnt become comfortable with an Oly system but hopefully Oly are taking this info on board from here and other places of comment ... he may come back one day
Hope you are all enjoying the festive season...
To say i was not comfortabe is maybe a bit of an exageration on my part. I was getting some fantastic shots from the e-3 and the 35-100 / 50-200mm lenses that were top notch when printed, but sometimes, even after 12 months, the ergonomics were a little bit of a let-down for me. Maybe its the shape of my hands, size of my fingers or something less tangible, but quick settings changes were not the order of the day, despite many attempts at finding the right setups.

As for coming back, i stay a member here as i loved some of the features of the E-system and WILL return one day - maybe for the E-3 successor, who knows
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  #5  
Old 28th December 2008
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Re: Cameras

This is a subject very close to my heart, and also quite relevant to me at the moment.

I enjoy using a variety of cameras, including my E1, my OM4Ti (I currently have three ), my OM2SP, and my Mamiya 645 Pro. Oh, and I also have a Canon PowerShot G9 which goes with me almost everywhere.

I sometimes have specific reasons for taking one or other of these cameras, but more often than not, it is the mood of the day that decides which camera I take, and perhaps which film I pack in my bag.

All have their own strengths and weaknesses, and all have produced stunning shots in their own right. More to the point, all are certainly more capable of taking good photographs than I am; well, most of the time anyway.

Nevertheless, if I am totally honest, I would happily admit even on this forum that if I am planning to shoot landscapes, and time and weight are not an object, my preference is to take the Mamiya, loaded with Velvia, Provia, Portra or FP4 as appropriate. Even on a digital forum I think one has to concede to the superiority of medium format film, and the huge amount of information that it can carry.

However, apart from the purely practical obstacles, one's choice of medium also seems to limit the photographic competitions that one can enter. Please don't misunderstand me: I am not a 'pot hunter', and neither do I seek to gain an unfair advantage over others, but I do enjoy the freedom of using whatever camera I feel like using on the day, or which I have to hand, and would be reluctant to shoot to order.

But does this mean that I should consider which competitions that I might want to enter before deciding which camera to put into my bag?

The reason I raise this question is that I recently uploaded an image taken on my Olympus OM4Ti, (a classic Olympus if ever there was one). However, to the best of my knowledge, Olympus don't make film scanners, (I certainly don't have one), so I scanned the film using my Nikon LS9000 film scanner. Inevitably this was picked up by a sharp eyed member, who pointed out that the image was taken on a Nikon!

So perhaps this would be a good time to clarify which images are allowed on this forum, and whether only images from specific Olympus models are permitted?

I am more than happy to comply with any forum rules, although I am not altogether sure whether such limitations really further the spirit of photography.
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Old 28th December 2008
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Re: Cameras

I looked at the FAQ and there do not appear to be any rules ... and no I do not wish to get into a flame session on the merits of cameras/film/digital etc -as I have already said ... you work out how to use the tools and then find the particular tool that fits you

the only guide we really have is the headers of the forum...
Olympus UK E-System User Group
E-System talk UK

So anything that hangs into that should be okay ... unless there are some rules somewhere
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  #7  
Old 28th December 2008
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Re: Cameras

Hi Nigel

As I more or less started this thread I thought I should respond to your post and I totally agree with what you have said. I have owned many cameras in my 60+ years of enjoying photography, having started out with an old folding 120 film camera made prior to WW2 and with tilting and moving of lens to aquire total sharpness throughout!! From that I went to Rollei (two of them, one for colour tother for B&W) then to 4x5 graphic and various and sundry others. I had a Hasselblad for many years with three lenses and three film backs....now there was a camera. I had to give that one up because of serious health problems that would not allow me to carry a suitcase full of camera junk around. Years later, along came digital and what a difference a day makes. Yes, I still say that it isn't necessarily the camera you shoot with but what you see and compose ... the camera is only a tool!!
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  #8  
Old 28th December 2008
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Re: Cameras

I still have a foot in both camps. My workhorse everyday camera is an E510. The camera I use solely for the pleasure of using it is a Leica M6. Sometimes I borrow my wife's Canon Ixus (which is riduculously good most of the time). I only normally post from Oly in this forum unless to make a point, simlarly in a Leica forum I would only post pics from the M6. In the AP forum anything goes - (and usually gets insulted by Big Will).

I don't think brand loyalty to the point of tunnel vision helps anyone but readily accept that some forums are brand specific and I respect that, and the rules and ethos of that forum.

Though I don't know what I'll do when I get a Panasonic G1 and start using both Olympus 4/3 and Leica M lenses on it!
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  #9  
Old 28th December 2008
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Re: Cameras

Dear Bill and Crimbo,
I am grateful for your thoughts.

My thoughts on the matter, for what they are worth, are that I feel that registered E System users should be able to post images from any type of camera, but should not necessarily be able to enter competitions using non E - System cameras. After all, it would be easy enough to duplicate a slide using an E whatever, or even to fiddle the EXIF data.

When it comes to competitions, I feel it would be good to be able to include entries from OM users, although I can see that it might not be appropriate to make it a free for all.

As I said above, I am happy to abide by any clear forum rules prohibiting competition entries taken on other marques; but I do feel that we would all loose out if we were only ever allowed to see images taken on E System cameras on these pages.
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  #10  
Old 28th December 2008
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Re: Cameras

I agree with much of what you said Nigel - particularly your sound view of digital compact Canons!

However that said I do see the point in this forum being tight on using E system gear - Olympus are the forum sponsors after all and have showered goodies on us all over the past year - for which I am certainly very grateful as I am sure we all are.

I agree that this places those of us with more than just E system Olympus gear in difficult situations at times and we might sometimes feel a little constrained. I know I would use my G9 to take shots for which I would never use my E-1 (and vice versa). I'd love to show those on here - but so far have uploaded only E system pics even to the gallery.

It's difficult to draw the line re pot walloping etc. Should anyone with an Oly camera qualify - and be able to sending the result of work with Leicas, Nikons etc?? Surely not.

However the example you give about the Nikon scan of the Oly film shot seems a little Stalinesque to me. I do feel that should certainly 'qualify'.

Bottom line of course is as long as the rules are crystal clear - we gotta abide by them

Season's greetings to y'all
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  #11  
Old 28th December 2008
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Re: Cameras

Yea as much as I would like my cameras sitting in the corner to go out and take some good pictures ...they just will not move without me!
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Old 28th December 2008
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Re: Cameras

Yes, I guess that enforcement will always be a problem with images from film cameras.

Perhaps if contributing members were required to provide serial numbers of their E - System (and OM System) bodies, it would make it very difficult for imposters to upload images from Canons, Leicas and so forth.

However, as an owner of a genuine, (and what was a very expensive) OM4Ti, bought new in 1998, I think I would feel a little aggrieved if I were to be forbidden from upload images taken on it; although I accept that entering E - System competitions may be out of bounds.

I think it would be a great shame that such a good camera was left to rot because the images from it were outlawed from online galleries, and equally, I feel that everyone would loose out by not seeing the photographs that it produced.

I have included a photo of it here to show that it is real - taken on my E1 of course.



Anyone who does not think it worthy of taking photographs for online forums really doesn’t have a heart IMVHO.
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  #13  
Old 28th December 2008
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Re: Cameras

a design classic if ever there was one
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Old 29th December 2008
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Re: Cameras

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Gordon View Post
it isn't the camera that takes the picture ... its the person standing behind the camera
Quote:
Originally Posted by crimbo
- you have to know how to use the tools and then you have to find the particular tool that fits you
Those comments cover what I feel about photography and cameras too.

I've only got one camera, it chose me as much as I chose it - it seemed to suit me at the time and I've been very happy with it so far. I like the shape, I like the way it handles and I like the lenses, but I'm sure one day I'll replace it - I don't know when or what with. I'm also very happy here with this forum, and hadn't thought there would ever be any sort of animosity because somebody moves away from Oly, even temporarily, because I suppose it hadn't crossed my mind that I might be expected to leave behind people I've come to respect, whose opinions I value, and some who I've met too, simply because I get a different brand of camera.

This is a friendly site, perhaps it's so friendly because there's no overt competition or brand animosity, it isn't very nice to read some of the slightly unpleasant comments relating to Chris's choice of camera and the pictures he's shared with us just because they haven't been taken by an Oly e-system camera. It reads like the sort of flak that gets dealt out on other sites, I hadn't ever imagined I'd read it here.

So, we need to know if we have to wave goodbye to people we've "known" for a long time because they don't have brand loyalty. I hope not, because I think the site could lose an element of expertise and experience - that can be offered by those who know the system, know the cameras and know how to take pictures, even if they don't currently own an Oly - and I think that would be a pity.

But, thinking about it, and cutting away the emotion, the site is sponsored by Olympus, so it's up to them to call the tune and perhaps clarify the situation. Their decision could ultimately mean the forum/site will have a transient population - which could make it a less valuable resource.

A tough call for somebody or other, and I'm glad it isn't a decision I'm likely to have to make.
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Old 29th December 2008
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Re: Cameras

On a slightly different point, my experience of photography is limited to borrowing my brother's OM10 many years ago or various point and shoots imbetween.

I chose Olympus because a of this limited experience, the 4/3rd's system and a friend who used the system whose pictures impressed me.

One of the problems I find with the comments on this, and probably any, site is when qualitative statements are made with regard to the benefits of one system over another. It is interesting to see Chillimonsters pictures and be able to see if there are such visible differences. Chasing down other sites to make such comparisons is beyond my time budget and desire. Must admit that I think the picture taker has far more influence over the quality than the technical merits of the system from my experience so far.

If we were to pursue an absolute exclusion to all but e-system pictures might this not exclude the interesting experimentation with legacy lenses as well?

As Ellie says the sponsors would obviously have the major say but one presumes that they will not exclude viewing the competition which may highlight their superiority as well as their faults and attract new customers.
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