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Old 4th November 2017
KeithL KeithL is offline
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Acid attacks

I can honestly say that I am appalled and very angry at the latest acid attack, on a delivery moped rider, blinding him in both eyes and leaving him fighting for his life when he wouldn't hand his moped over to these moped-riding thieves. Reportedly, the police have been questioning a fourteen year old. Fourteen, for God's sake!

The scale of these craven, cowardly acid attacks on innocent people has become, well, scandalous. But how to prevent them? Firstly, there is no deterrent, even if they are caught. Second, there is little chance of the police catching them (think - cuts, few police on the beat) Thirdly, and I'm sorry to say this, the currently emerging scale of mostly misbehaviour towards women by people who should know better is almost certainly set to tie up far too much of scant police resources at a time when such horrors as this attack are happening frequently on particularly London's streets. This attack surely is far more important, given the rising scale of violence and frequency?

The first thing is deterrence. Maybe the Old Testament and Sharia Law make some sense in the light of these attacks. I find myself having sympathy with "an eye for an eye". But is it a solution? Not necessarily. Maybe, if the perpetrators are caught, they should be locked up where they can be forced to work for as long as necessary to provide for their victim. That might make them think!

But how to catch them? Police decoys? Snag is that the police case would probably fail in court as entrapment. Perhaps moped owners should invest in helmets with clear plastic face shields, and protective clothing. Add to that a small camera, working like a dash cam? Unfortunately, the b-----ds who commit this crime wear dark visors. But the camera might get their licence plates. A spray that soaks the perpetrators with something that can't be washed off, soaks through their clothes to their skin, and stays there?

The problem without question needs more police resources. A lot more. But maybe some defensive spray, or other defensive (= offensive) means for moped or motorcycle riders to defend themselves?

Maybe if we can solve the 'how to catch them' problem, we could do something similar to Sharia Law, and just amputate their feet. Wouldn't stop them working, but would stop them running away IF they manage to ride mopeds again; and deterrence? Well, would YOU risk it?

The government and police really need to get out of their collective bunker and DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! Before the motorcycle riding public take the law into their own hands.
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Old 4th November 2017
Jim Ford Jim Ford is offline
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Re: Acid attacks

I'm going to start carrying a big bottle of water in the car (maybe 'laced' with a mild alkali like sodium bicarbonate to make it more effective at acid neutralisation). It's not so much to treat myself, but others that may need it.

Jim
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Old 4th November 2017
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Re: Acid attacks

Well said, Keith.
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Old 4th November 2017
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Re: Acid attacks

The government's response so far: limit sales of corrosive substances to those 18+, and somehow limit access to H2SO4.

Sharia law may well sort it, and perhaps the Muslim way has something to teach us in the way men and women behave and interact.
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Old 4th November 2017
Petrochemist Petrochemist is offline
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Re: Acid attacks

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Originally Posted by Jim Ford View Post
I'm going to start carrying a big bottle of water in the car (maybe 'laced' with a mild alkali like sodium bicarbonate to make it more effective at acid neutralisation). It's not so much to treat myself, but others that may need it.

Jim
The water should help, but I'd stay clear of any other chemicals.
It's not just acid that's used in these sorts of attacks, caustic solutions. bleach etc are also used.
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Old 4th November 2017
Jim Ford Jim Ford is offline
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Re: Acid attacks

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The government's response so far: limit sales of corrosive substances to those 18+, and somehow limit access to H2SO4.
The Government's response is risible - you can get any amount of sulphuric acid from old car batteries! If I wanted some I wouldn't go to the bother of shopping for it.

Jim
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Old 4th November 2017
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Re: Acid attacks

I've thought for some time that the term 'crime prevention' has become a thing of the past. It would appear that today's attitude is do unto othersbefore they do it unto you. In other words, the law of the jungle has taken over. I still believe we started to lose the plot when a certain figure of a certain colour ws removed from jam jars.

I had a similar connveration just a few days ago with one of my dog walking friends who is on the plod squad. His side of things basically means that the police have now become more of a responsive rather than a preventive organisation. In his words, we have allowed ourselves to led sleep-walking into the current climate of law enforcement. Again, in his words we - joe public - should be shouting at our MP's from the roof-topsthat enough is enough. I jokingly pointed out that if we did, we would probable be arrested for verbal abuse / harassment and end up being arrested.

Still, looking on the bright side - from the inside - three square meals a day, free TV, gym and front of the Q for medical / hospital appointments along with free education to degree level sounds more like perks than punishment. All of this is far, far cheaper than paying for residential care. Which might go some way in explaining why prisons are overflowing.
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Old 4th November 2017
Keith-369 Keith-369 is offline
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Re: Acid attacks

I have no words to describe what I think regarding the actions of these people who do such things.
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Re: Acid attacks

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Originally Posted by Jim Ford View Post
The Government's response is risible - you can get any amount of sulphuric acid from old car batteries! If I wanted some I wouldn't go to the bother of shopping for it.Jim
I think the biggest problem is that items can e Googled as has been ptoved and, although acid attacks etc., are bad enough, other household items when mixed can be much much more of an issue. Personally, I blame much of this on the PC and human rights brigades. When some punishments are given out, it results on the victim(s) being victimesd further. As someone many, many years ago, once commented: "We all have rights but sometimes, having too many rights cause problems. Going back a few years, I remember an elderly man going to jail for shooting anintruder in self-defence, went to jail and the criminal basically laughed all the way to a minor sentence... quite possily, a case of too many rights?
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Old 4th November 2017
Jim Ford Jim Ford is offline
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Re: Acid attacks

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I had a similar connveration just a few days ago with one of my dog walking friends who is on the plod squad. His side of things basically means that the police have now become more of a responsive rather than a preventive organisation.
I always thought that a major role of the police was to maintain law and order on our streets. I can't see how they can do this if they are sitting in control rooms tutt-tutting at indistinct CCTV images of villains plying their craft, or driving around in response to crimes having already been committed.

The public have for a long while stated that they want to see more police on our streets, but are ignored.

I firmly believe that if the police can't or won't protect the public, then the public should be allowed to protect themselves - guns, knives, clubs, whatever! Why should the thugs get away with carrying weapons, but the public can't?

This country has become quite vile, and it's getting worse!

Jim
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Old 4th November 2017
chorleyjeff chorleyjeff is offline
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Re: Acid attacks

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Originally Posted by Wally View Post

Still, looking on the bright side - from the inside - three square meals a day, free TV, gym and front of the Q for medical / hospital appointments along with free education to degree level sounds more like perks than punishment. All of this is far, far cheaper than paying for residential care. Which might go some way in explaining why prisons are overflowing.
Absolute balderdash.
Wrong on all counts.
Do not think " porridge " is a documentary.
But still why bother with facts when you can just repeat Daily Mail type rubbish.
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Old 4th November 2017
chorleyjeff chorleyjeff is offline
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Re: Acid attacks

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Originally Posted by Jim Ford View Post
I always thought that a major role of the police was to maintain law and order on our streets. I can't see how they can do this if they are sitting in control rooms tutt-tutting at indistinct CCTV images of villains plying their craft, or driving around in response to crimes having already been committed.

The public have for a long while stated that they want to see more police on our streets, but are ignored.

I firmly believe that if the police can't or won't protect the public, then the public should be allowed to protect themselves - guns, knives, clubs, whatever! Why should the thugs get away with carrying weapons, but the public can't?

This country has become quite vile, and it's getting worse!




Jim
Are you saying there should be a police officer on every street corner ?
There never was the police presence you suggest.
The payoff for low taxes, such as we enjoy, has a consequence for public services. More police means more tax or less spending elsewhere.
Jeff
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Old 4th November 2017
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Re: Acid attacks

Maybe we might begin to understand the American gun culture..........

I know that is not a solution, but I do begin to think about arming myself with some sort of fight back gadget, No not a f*****g gun, but something less lethal, but reasonably effective. (Small atom b**b perhaps)

No solution in mind, but thoughts are erring towards something ALAS

Edit...I live in a small welsh village, and cannot envisage any similar problem here, but city dwellers might...................
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Old 5th November 2017
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Re: Acid attacks

Quote Wally: Still, looking on the bright side - from the inside - three square meals a day, free TV, gym and front of the Q for medical / hospital appointments along with free education to degree level sounds more like perks than punishment. All of this is far, far cheaper than paying for residential care.

The above was meant to be a light-hearted take on a serious subject. However, some govt facts from 2008 have proved, that incarceration in prison cost the tax-payer a shade over 40K per individual.

Quote Jeff:
Absolute balderdash - Wrong on all counts - Do not think " porridge " is a documentary. - But still why bother with facts when you can just repeat Daily Mail type rubbish.

Q 1/- How much were you earning in 2008 and how much did you spend on basic living expences?

Q 2/- How much did residential care cost?

Quote Jeff: Are you saying there should be a police officer on every street corner?
There never was the police presence you suggest.
The payoff for low taxes, such as we enjoy, has a consequence for public services. More police means more tax or less spending elsewhere.

Taking all of the above into account, and bringing prisoner costs upto date, I reckon we can see at least one reason why cuts have been made. The thin red line has now become the thin blue line and, I agree it is cause for serious concern but is jail really the correct answer?

At 40k a pop in 2008 and with prisoner numbers more than doubled in 2016 and with costs pp doing a similar increase, justification of the costs doesn't add up?

So, perhaps if less were spent on incarceration, more could be spent on prevention. If a heads-up were needed, this is it. A recent report - 2017 - stated that in NI, it cost more per day per prisoner, than it cost to stay overnight in one of London's top hotels.

In essence, the whole system has become a merry-go-round with the tax-payers funding the ride. As for 'our lower taxes' comment, I can't, in all honesty, see that spending more via taxation under the present system would make a difference to the crime punishment.

As many of us have intimated, spending money on prevention rather on the cure might be of benefit to the majority of society rather on the few who cause the problems. Whatever the solution is, I don't see it being resolved, if ever?

Perhaps Trump and Rocket Man can resolve it for us? Taking one of The Ventures / The Shadows tunes - Wipeout - the whole human race and in another 2-3 million years or so, we could start again from scratch... and maybe, get it right, but I'm not holding my breath.

PS: If you haven't alread guessed... It's Sunday when I have nothing to do, and all day to do it in.
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Old 5th November 2017
Jim Ford Jim Ford is offline
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Re: Acid attacks

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Are you saying there should be a police officer on every street corner ?
There never was the police presence you suggest.
My experience as a child was that police _were_ ubiquitous.

My father was in the Met. in the 40s and 50s. Part of the equipment they carried was a whistle, which was used to summon assistance if required. This meant that it was considered possible that another officer would be within earshot.

He also used to say that if I was lost or wanted to know the time, to ask a policeman, the possibility being that I would encounter a policeman. I can't remember when I last encountered a police officer on foot - probably at least last year!

Jim
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