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The lounge Relax, take a break from photo and camera talk - have a chat about something else for a change. Just keep it clean and polite!

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  #1  
Old 11th March 2015
grissley grissley is offline
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Question need for speed

ok guys I want to know why since using digital I cant get enough shutter speed like I did with film.
I use to use 64 asa slide film and never had a problem with low shutter speed and quite often got to use F22, but since using digital even at 200 iso theres very little shutter speed even at F3.5 a lot of times so why is this.
? how does asa 64 compare with modern iso ?
do you have this problem, I,m comfused by it all.
cheers phil
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Old 11th March 2015
Harold Gough Harold Gough is offline
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Re: need for speed

I have just checked one of my sunlit images 1/250 at f8 ISO 200. According to the sunny f16 rule, that should have been f16 but it was not full, harsh sun.

A similar shot was 1/100 at f11 at ISO 200, again with some cloud. Close enough.

Harold
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Old 11th March 2015
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Re: need for speed

ISO sensitivity should be roughly comparable film to digital. Maybe you take more photos indoors now?
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Old 11th March 2015
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Re: need for speed

Some digital cameras actually have lower ISO sensitivity than the figures might suggest, mainly to help reduce noise.

Also, film cameras had to conform to 'standard' ISO sensitivities if the film was to be exposed properly, whereas a digital camera is a law unto itself. As long as the right amount of light hits the sensor you can call the ISO sensitivity, shutter speeds and aperture values anything you like.
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Old 11th March 2015
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Re: need for speed

Using a hand held meter tells me the speed to set the camera for whatever ISO and Aperture I have set.

This works for Film and Digital, with the exposure being correct for both.

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Old 11th March 2015
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Re: need for speed

I took this several weeks ago. The exposure details are 1/1000th sec, f6.3, ISO 200.

That has the same exposure value as 1/160th, f16, ISO 200. Under the Sunny 16 Rule the shutter speed should have been 1/200th sec, so quite close and bear in mind it was winter sunshine, not summer sunshine. For comparison, Kodachrome 64 would have needed an exposure of 1/50th at f16.

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Old 12th March 2015
Harold Gough Harold Gough is offline
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Re: need for speed

With film, the exposure had to be right for the speed, as the development time e.g. for transparencies assumed ISO and exposure were correct. With digital you can adjust exposure during PP, more so with RAW files. You can always get a bit more shutter speed by setting a compensation factor to underexpose.

ASA, now ISO, was based on light levels in California between mid morning and mid afternoon, or something similar.
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Old 12th March 2015
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Re: need for speed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham_of_Rainham View Post
Using a hand held meter tells me the speed to set the camera for whatever ISO and Aperture I have set.

This works for Film and Digital, with the exposure being correct for both.

Exposure should be the same regardless of the device used, but as I explained, this is not always the case for digital cameras. My E1, for example, is about two thirds of a stop less sensitive that the ISO settings would suggest (and it is still noisy)!

Even when we used film cameras there were some makes that consistently under or over exposed by a quarter of a stop, which doesn't sound like much, but was important when using slide film.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Harold Gough View Post
ASA, now ISO, was based on light levels in California between mid morning and mid afternoon, or something similar.
I didn't know that. I wonder how that works?

I have an ancient Weston meter (pre Invercone). If I recall the standard test for that is to point it at clear blue sky towards the north (in the northern hemisphere).
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Old 12th March 2015
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Re: need for speed

A quick check in Wikipedia (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_speed) shows that there are two standards for ISO film/camera sensitivity ISO 5800:2001 (film) and ISO 12232:2006 (digital). You need to pay for the actual docs, but The Wiki article gives the basic info. Bottom line - it's complicated. Headline - it's a reasonably good standard that is roughly equivalent across film and digital.

The Wiki article mentions nothing about ASA being based on Californian sun!
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Old 12th March 2015
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Re: need for speed

I thought the film speeds and exposure rules were generated by testing on the front steps of the Kodak offices in Rochester NY, in a specified set of weather conditions.
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Old 12th March 2015
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Re: need for speed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Naughty Nigel View Post
Exposure should be the same regardless of the device used, but as I explained, this is not always the case for digital cameras.
Hi there Nigel!

I thought that the ISO ratings for my XZ-1 were miles off, needing shutter speed miles lower than my E-M1 and higher ISO to get a properly exposed image. Then I noticed the little ND icon on the screen Yes, I'd inadvertently switched on the built in ND filter and been trying to take pictures in the dark with it

Just goes to show that you always need to read the manual!

Cheers,

Ralph.
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Old 13th March 2015
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Re: need for speed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph Harwood View Post
Hi there Nigel!

I thought that the ISO ratings for my XZ-1 were miles off, needing shutter speed miles lower than my E-M1 and higher ISO to get a properly exposed image. Then I noticed the little ND icon on the screen Yes, I'd inadvertently switched on the built in ND filter and been trying to take pictures in the dark with it

Just goes to show that you always need to read the manual!

Cheers,

Ralph.
Even more so when you fail to remove the lens cap.......

(And you do sometimes see cameras in 'vintage' TV dramas being used with the lens cap still on. As well as e.g. 1930s flash guns that don't need bulb changes...)

Being serious again - the exposure given by my Canon 50D for a given scene is different to the exposure for the same scene/same ISO on my M5; the Canon seems to have a more sensitive sensor.
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Old 13th March 2015
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Re: need for speed

Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithL View Post
Being serious again - the exposure given by my Canon 50D for a given scene is different to the exposure for the same scene/same ISO on my M5; the Canon seems to have a more sensitive sensor.
The Canon also has a bigger sensor, so maybe Olympus is telling little white porkies to help improve noise?
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Old 13th March 2015
Harold Gough Harold Gough is offline
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Re: need for speed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph Harwood View Post
Hi there Nigel!

I thought that the ISO ratings for my XZ-1 were miles off, needing shutter speed miles lower than my E-M1 and higher ISO to get a properly exposed image. Then I noticed the little ND icon on the screen Yes, I'd inadvertently switched on the built in ND filter and been trying to take pictures in the dark with it

Just goes to show that you always need to read the manual!

Cheers,

Ralph.
That's just great! Another setting I can trip by accident!

Harold
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Old 13th March 2015
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Re: need for speed

Just did a very quick test with a Sekonic meter and an E-P5 at ISO 200 and the exposures were within 1/3 of a stop. I may have even affected the readings by being between the window and the plain wall when measuring the exposure with the camera.

I then put a fresh set of batteries in the OM4Ti and the measured exposure was within 1/2 a stop, but that was again with a different field of view and the light, possibly, falling off for the evening.

It was a really "quick and dirty" test, but the results were as expected.

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