Olympus UK E-System User Group
Olympus UK E-System User Group

Join our unique resource for Olympus Four Thirds E-System DSLR and Pen and OM-D Micro Four Thirds photographers. Show your images via our free e-group photo gallery. Please read the e-group.uk.net forum terms and conditions before posting for the first time. Above all, welcome!


Go Back   Olympus UK E-System User Group > Out of Focus area > The lounge

The lounge Relax, take a break from photo and camera talk - have a chat about something else for a change. Just keep it clean and polite!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 28th February 2008
theenigma
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Question What's going to be standard on your camera in 10 years time?

Hi there folks,

Thanks for helping me settle in here, I really am enjoying it. This is only the second site I have posted images on! Looks like I am here to stay now…

Anyway, I wanted to pick your brains about something.

Basically I have (somehow) managed to get my noodle stuck on camera development, specifically the features that would be most likely present on future models.

So far I have come up with a few thoughts on this and wanted to share them with you to see what you reckon the future holds.

Firstly screen size:

Since seeing the E3 recently I have been thinking about how big the rear LCD screen could get before it gets in the way. It seems that at around 3” a rear screen provides a good amount of detail in images when “chimping” and also allows access to many different camera settings in one go (bringing back memories of the Super Control Panel of the E3).
Recently I have seen a few P&S cameras with quite large screens which seem to dominate the camera, in my opinion this doesn’t look all that good but I can see its uses for people who just hold their hand out and shoot away.

Do you think this will happen to DSLR’s? Call me a “Techno-Luddite” but I personally prefer the physical action of changing settings on my E1 (same as when I held a Dynax 7D all those years back) it just seemed more engaging, rather than just scrolling through endless menus.

What do you think though, has the development of larger screens helped you become more creative? I have seen a few pics of people using the articulated screen of the E3 in many different situations and it looks really well implemented, I can't though see that they could make a much bigger screen without increasing the camera size to accommodate such technology (that and protect it from the inevitable scratches its likely to get from general usage).

Could the future of camera controls be in touch screen technology? If so then how big would the screen have to get to accommodate the selection of menu settings? I have quite big fingers and the last thing I would want is not being able to change a setting “on the fly”. What do you think on this?

Secondly the megapixel “Arms Race”:

Having seen the development of cameras go from film to digital (I remember when 1.3mp was the best you could get!) and the technology behind the sensors getting better and better I am beginning to wonder when things will calm down with regards “megapixel envy” surely we are near a stage where a film SLR and a DSLR can produce comparable results?

Are we going to see the advent of 100mp cameras or should it stop at around 15-20? To be honest I have never really given it that much thought as I look at what images I have taken and how it was done… not what it was taken with, yes you could blow up an image until you see its individual pixels but surely it is not worth the hassle if you can't tell the difference when glancing at images?

Obviously there is an element of “planned obsolescence” added into most things these days. My E1 can still take fantastic images, I don’t think I will ever need it to produce an image fit for billboards but I'm sure it would be possible to do so if need be. And yes it still is ONLY 5mp but look at the quality of those MP surely that is where the future lies, in the improvement of sensors DR and Photodiodes rather than just adding on another 5mp and hoping for the best?

I hope these q’s have fired off some thoughts of your own, I am intrigued to read what you think on these subjects.

I would like to add a few more sections but I think it would probably be better to do this in digestible posts rather than massive trawling articles!

Cheers,

Harv
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 28th February 2008
Hiding_Pup
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: What's going to be standard on your camera in 10 years time?

Reminds of this article in Olympus Pursuit:

"Perusing the artefacts preserved at the Zuikodo technology museum at the Olympus plant in Utsugi (Hachioji, Tokyo), one will be interested to find a list of criteria for the "dream camera" written forty years ago. The list is a collection of suggestions for "the perfect camera" offered by second-year students at the Chiba University engineering faculty when 200 of its students visited the Olympus factory at Suwa (now the Tatsuno plant) in 1967. Former Zuikodo director Michiharu Saito found the wish-list among materials that had been destined for disposal while he was employed at the Suwa factory, and preserved them at the Zuikodo to prevent their destruction. The faded 40-year-old list describes what students at the time saw as the ideal camera. Among the dreams, there were "a camera with film that can be used over and over again," "a camera with no blurring even when there is vibration," and "an auto-focusing camera that works the same as one with manual focus adjustment." Cameras manufactured in 1967 included the Olympus FV and EED. Four decades on, the emergence of digital cameras has made many of the dreams on the list reality. According to Mr. Saito, "When I checked about 15 years ago, maybe 50 percent of the developments on the list had materialized, but since then, the advent of digital cameras means about 70 percent of what were only dreams back then are now reality. In the world of technology, dreams do eventually come true, and this wish list for the perfect camera is in a sense a time capsule of dreams." If you want to read for yourself about the "dream camera" of 1967, come on over to Olympus Zuikodo and meet the dream team!"
Source: http://www.olympus.co.jp/en/magazine...2007/index.cfm
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 28th February 2008
ianc ianc is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: West Kilbride, Ayrshire
Posts: 241
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Re: What's going to be standard on your camera in 10 years time?

No doubt we will see a 100mp camera but it will be a studio camera similar to a 5x4. If you put 100mp in a 4/3 camera each pixel would be so small it wouldn't get enough light resulting in so much noise the images would be terrible. The other problem of putting so many pixels in a DSLR is that lenses don't have the resolving power for that number of pixels. My guess is main stream DSLRs will reach about 20mp but the major quality improvements will be in dynamic range and noise reduction.

Ian C.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 28th February 2008
Hiding_Pup
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: What's going to be standard on your camera in 10 years time?

My dream-list:

Liquid lenses

RAW format that allows for focusing post-capture

Good electronic viewfinders

Modular cameras - so you can take out the sensor and pop a new one in

Widespread use of GPS technology

New materials for construction, including moulded leather, wood and carbon fibre
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 28th February 2008
E-P1 fan
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: What's going to be standard on your camera in 10 years time?

Something that eliminates camera shake and focus problems entirely would be high on my list.

Well... if sensor technology went nano.......I'd love a digital Oly Pen F with a couple of stonking lenses all miniaturised to 1/2 frame size..ahhh a dslr in your jacket pocket - wouldn't that be nice.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 4th March 2008
Hiding_Pup
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: What's going to be standard on your camera in 10 years time?

Cool, it looks like someone's working on my focusing post-capture idea:

http://refocusimaging.com/about/

Check out the galleries - the samples are amazing.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 4th March 2008
HughofBardfield's Avatar
HughofBardfield HughofBardfield is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Great Bardfield, Essex, UK
Posts: 730
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Re: What's going to be standard on your camera in 10 years time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiding_Pup View Post
My dream-list:

Liquid lenses

RAW format that allows for focusing post-capture

Good electronic viewfinders

Modular cameras - so you can take out the sensor and pop a new one in

Widespread use of GPS technology

New materials for construction, including moulded leather, wood and carbon fibre
I suspect most of those (except perhaps the first one) will be with us fairly soon, probably with GPS ahead of the rest. I would be surprised if, in, say ten years time, we were still working with the same sensor technologies we have now. As Scotty would say "Ye cannae change the laws of physics, Captain", but I would bet that what we regard as advanced now will seem as archaic as a 1.5Mp sensor does today. Couple that with automation/predictive/AI technologies that allow perfectly exposed images in all but the most ludicrous circumstances.

What I hope will be possible will be a return to the possibility of smaller, lighter cameras like the original OMs. New construction materials and ever-higher component densities on chips and/or optical devices may well make that possible.

I hope that if touch-screen technology features, it will have been improved beyond recognition and have some intelligence. I had a touch screen phone for about 8 months and it drove me absolutely nuts - as does the touch screen on my wife's sat nav!
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 4th March 2008
Nick Temple-Fry's Avatar
Nick Temple-Fry Nick Temple-Fry is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Wiltshire
Posts: 4,395
Thanks: 17
Thanked 190 Times in 142 Posts
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Re: What's going to be standard on your camera in 10 years time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HughofBardfield View Post

Couple that with automation/predictive/AI technologies that allow perfectly exposed images in all but the most ludicrous circumstances.
Please forgive the very heavy snipping of the original post.

If cameras get too good with too high a dynamic range and onboard electronics makeing all the decisions - then what happens to the fun/challenge.

I enjoy tackling the limitations of the medium (and of my skill). And don't forget many of those limitations are the very tools needed for expression.

Will we still need the photographer?

Nick
__________________
Nick Temple-Fry

Medicine as a science ranks somewhere between archaeology and economics.

www.theChurchPhotographer.co.uk 90 Churches -- Fairford St Mary's, exceptionally splendid
www.temple-fry.co.uk
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 4th March 2008
Nova Invicta's Avatar
Nova Invicta Nova Invicta is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Bracknell
Posts: 95
Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Post Re: What's going to be standard on your camera in 10 years time?

1. Liquid Lenses - The company I work for has a joint patent for liquid lenses and so far they have amounted to one lens with liquid sandwiched between two elements in the rear focusing group. The theory is by changing the refractive index you can make lighter, smaller lenses particularly at the telephoto end however they are complex to make and the results are variable so from a commercial point of view in high volumes not really a viable option yet.
2. Sensor Sizes - Hasselblad have proven large image sendsors can be made at nearly 40 M pixels but as stated elsewhere this starts to get practically more difficult with smaller image sensors. The gains Canon state are more likely to come from processing software and better algorithums rather than pure image sensor improvements through more M pixels. The sensors however may change the way in which they read information and output that information to give finer detail. So size is not everything!

3. Interestingly the improvements being made for mobile phone cameras may well feed into DSLRs & Compacts in terms of reductions in size etc. as live mos / cmos actually came about because of mobile phones as much as cameras.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 4th March 2008
snaarman's Avatar
snaarman snaarman is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Baaarkshire UK
Posts: 6,851
Thanks: 501
Thanked 417 Times in 325 Posts
Likes: 492
Liked 1,320 Times in 502 Posts
Re: What's going to be standard on your camera in 10 years time?

Regarding in camera electronics - well we can all guess there will be a lot more of it, faster, cleverer, lower power.

Regarding the sensor - this is less easy to predict but (revisiting some of the ideas in previous posts maybe..)

How about a breakthrough in sensor design that gives a real logarithmic response to light? Or alternatively a sensor where different parts of the image get different shutter speeds. Either of the above should do something for dynamic range.. :-)

Or maybe a sensor that images the scene at different depths inside the silicon (well the Foveon uses depth sensitive colour response). Thus it images different focus planes inside the Silicon and saves them in some as yet uninvented new multilayered xpeg file. So you really could refocus it after the event!

Oh, and finally a small but effective time reversal engine. This is for folks like me who espouse the "Indecisive Moment" school of photography..



Pete
__________________
Look, I'm an old man. I shouldn't be expected to put up with this.


Pete's photoblog Misleading the public since 2010.

Last edited by snaarman; 4th March 2008 at 09:44 PM. Reason: spelling!
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 4th March 2008
Nova Invicta's Avatar
Nova Invicta Nova Invicta is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Bracknell
Posts: 95
Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Re: What's going to be standard on your camera in 10 years time?

Heres an example of Sensor improvement announced by Kodak who developed the Bayer Pattern:

Current Technology
Today, almost all color image sensors are designed using the “Bayer Pattern,” an arrangement of red, green, and blue (RGB) pixels that was first developed by Kodak scientist Dr. Bryce Bayer in 1976. A Bayer filter mosaic is a color filter array (CFA) for arranging RGB color filters on a square grid of photo sensors. The term derives from the name of its inventor, Dr. Bryce E. Bayer of Eastman Kodak, and refers to a particular arrangement of color filters used in most single-chip digital image sensors to create a color image.

In this design, half of the pixels on the sensor are used to collect green light, with the remaining pixels evenly split between sensitivity to red and blue light. After exposure, software is used to reconstruct a full RGB image at each pixel in the final image. This design is currently the de facto standard for generating color images with a single image sensor, and is widely used throughout the industry.

New Technology
The new approach builds upon the standard Bayer pattern by adding panchromatic pixels – pixels that are sensitive to all visible wavelengths – to the RGB pixels present on the sensor. Since no wavelengths of visible light are excluded, these panchromatic pixels allow a (black and white) image to be detected with high sensitivity. The remaining RGB pixels present on the sensor are then used to collect color information, which is combined with the information from the pan pixels to generate the final image.

Note that this is not one single pattern, but a concept – the use of panchromatic pixels to increase the overall sensitivity of the sensor. Depending on the application, different patterns may be more appropriate for use. For example, one natural trade-off is the balance between the sensor’s overall sensitivity (via the pan pixels) and how well the sensor collects color information (via the RGB pixels). The highest sensitivity would come from a sensor composed only of pan pixels, but would provide no color information. By changing the ratio of pan to RGB pixels, applications with different sensitivity and color needs can be best accommodated. Other considerations might be the ease of image reconstruction (i.e., patterns optimized for applications where reduced processing power is available), or for backward compatibility with video subsystems (where the raw data from the sensor easily decimates to a standard Bayer RGB pattern for input into video processors).

This technology increases the overall sensitivity of the sensor, as more of the photons striking the sensor are collected and used to generate the final image. This provides an increase in the photographic speed of the sensor, which can be used to improve performance when imaging under low light, enable faster shutter speeds (to reduce motion blur when imaging moving subjects), or the design of smaller pixels (leading to higher resolutions in a given optical format) while retaining performance.

Announced in July 2007, first sample ready Q1 2008
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 4th March 2008
Hiding_Pup
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: What's going to be standard on your camera in 10 years time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Temple-Fry View Post
Please forgive the very heavy snipping of the original post.

If cameras get too good with too high a dynamic range and onboard electronics makeing all the decisions - then what happens to the fun/challenge.

I enjoy tackling the limitations of the medium (and of my skill). And don't forget many of those limitations are the very tools needed for expression.

Will we still need the photographer?

Nick
You could use "vintage" digital - kind of like the 35mm gang today :-)
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 4th March 2008
Xpres
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: What's going to be standard on your camera in 10 years time?

It seems to me that digital is developing in a similar way to film in that the rate of increase in quality is begining to plateau. Sensor size does seem to be important now, as cramming in more pixels won't work - you can only tweek the existing ones. Kind of like the grain in film, you must move up a format to really improve the quality. Or look for the next step change in technology. Maybe the E? will have a different kind of sensor alltogether and have multiple lenses like an insect eye.
Oh well, I guess I'll be using my vintage digital again tomorrow - and my 10x8 calotype with pinhole.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 5th March 2008
HughofBardfield's Avatar
HughofBardfield HughofBardfield is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Great Bardfield, Essex, UK
Posts: 730
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Re: What's going to be standard on your camera in 10 years time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Temple-Fry View Post
If cameras get too good with too high a dynamic range and onboard electronics makeing all the decisions - then what happens to the fun/challenge.

I enjoy tackling the limitations of the medium (and of my skill). And don't forget many of those limitations are the very tools needed for expression.

Will we still need the photographer?

Nick
I agree completely - which is why we will still need DSLRs (or their equivalent) with a full range of controls/options/overrides to give the photographer freedom of creative expression, in addition to image selection (or vision), framing, composition and timing. We may still choose to alter the dynamic range or other parameters in Post to suit our visualisation.

For example, I badly wanted AF to be freed from the tedious process of trying to find focus (which is not easy with my lousy eyesight), but the freedom to choose the point of focus, or to over-ride the camera's "decision" is absolutely vital. However, it doesn't half help to have a starting point...

I suppose that will be " vintage digital".... LOL

It would be nice to think that "better" cameras offering even more complete automation than available today will tempt ever more users into exploring the additional creative potential and becoming enthusiasts rather than happy snappers.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 5th March 2008
DerekW DerekW is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 3,106
Thanks: 92
Thanked 337 Times in 264 Posts
Likes: 33
Liked 542 Times in 380 Posts
Re: What's going to be standard on your camera in 10 years time?

To assist focus position it would be neat if the camera could detect where the eye was looking at in the image to determine the optimum focus and exposure point. The viewfinder would then respond with a confirmation indicator of the point selected.

Eye movement and position technology is already available for process checking eg cockpit layout etc
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Using standard lenses for macro work (Ex-25?) swazon Lens focus 55 11th December 2009 06:34 PM
Deciding 'When' and 'How' to go part-time / full-time theMusicMan The lounge 6 9th April 2008 08:40 PM
Olympus Studio & time lapse Sam M Software 4 29th January 2008 05:44 PM
drive time art frames The lounge 2 8th January 2008 11:07 AM
Don't forget! No time to lose... Ian Announcements 2 15th November 2007 10:45 PM


All times are GMT. The time now is 04:22 AM.


© The Write Technology Ltd, 2007-2019, All rights reservedAd Management plugin by RedTyger