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Standard zoom and mid range Lenses with focal lengths larger than 12mm, but no longer than 60mm, includes standard zooms and portrait primes plus some macro lenses.

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Old 5th May 2017
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Re: No Manual Focus Assist with the 17mm 1.8???

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Originally Posted by Talkingdrum View Post
AF is so good, but the problem is that you are still relying on the camera to choose precisely what it is that you want to focus on. To me it's just annoying most of the time. Kind of like messing around with exposure compensation - take control of the camera, have it manual and it's never needed. With the OMD 1 MKii if you are in MF then you can have it set so that the moment you touch the focus ring magnification kicks in (unless the MF clutch is engaged of course!). There's a ridiculous autofocus feature on this camera where you can choose a focus point and then zoom in in that point and then choose another focus point with in that so that you get a more accurate focus point for what you want. By the time you've done all a quick twist of the focus ring in manual, a split second you're bang on.
At the end of the day each to their own. Because of AF a lot of people don't even try manual focusing. It's far superior in my opinion and I'm sure that if people tried it many would not go back.

I totally agree with you about Voigtlander 17.5, but I have chosen this camera so I have a light weight alternative to carrying around my DSLR system or medium format film cameras. I'm probably expecting too much of a Micro 4/3 system to behave like a professional tool.
Sorry, but I'm still not with you... You don't need to leave AF to choose its own point. I agree that doing so really isn't a smart idea. However, whether you use AF or MF you still need to move the focus point over the thing you want to shoot so in what way is MF faster? You can always focus and recompose to avoid moving the point but you can do that with AF or MF .
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  #17  
Old 5th May 2017
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Re: No Manual Focus Assist with the 17mm 1.8???

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Sorry, but I'm still not with you... You don't need to leave AF to choose its own point. I agree that doing so really isn't a smart idea. However, whether you use AF or MF you still need to move the focus point over the thing you want to shoot so in what way is MF faster? You can always focus and recompose to avoid moving the point but you can do that with AF or MF .
There are many short comings in AF. Ok this doesn't necessarily apply to this lens but having done a great deal of portrait photography, if you use AF, time and time again the AF will focus on the eyebrow or the nose and what you want is the eye. Doing portraits it will rarely hit the eye bang on. The trouble is you see a green rectangle. People think that whatever they place inside that green rectangle will be in focus. This is not true, the focus points are on the green lines of the rectangle. The green rectangle will more often than not, not be covering a flat plane (e.g. a face) so the camera has to make a decision which point on the AF green rectangle it's going to pick to focus on. If someone's eye is in the middle of the focus rectangle the camera will not focus on the eye but on the eyebrow which is being covered by the rectangle. That's just one example. Taking photographs of small objects some distance from the background or something a little more ethereal like wispy grass, you must have experienced difficulty in getting the camera to focus on what you want it to. I could go on with numerous other short comings of AF but you have none of these problems in MF. A quick turn of the dial and bang, you're on every time. AF definitely has its place for sports and fast moving subjects. At the end of the day its each to his own which makes for an interesting world. Every time I get a new camera AF technology has moved on and I play around with it (the new OMD - 1 MK2 has not just face recognition but eye recognition to focus on the eye), but after a short while its short comings just become frustrating when it's so easy to manual focus on these cameras with MF assists.
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Old 5th May 2017
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Re: No Manual Focus Assist with the 17mm 1.8???

I wasn't aware of the rectangle thing, thanks for the info.

Personally I find AF to be something akin to a focus lottery and I avoid it if I can. However, I think manufacturers have hit a gold mine here; it's so much easier to make a servo assisted focusing system without distance and DoF scales, plus the gubbins to make it work reliably.

Who in God's name thought AF was a good idea? Good for the lazy photographer, maybe.
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Re: No Manual Focus Assist with the 17mm 1.8???

Well, each to their own, but my experience is that AF works extremely well in nearly all circumstances. Since going to u43 I've used AF probably 98% of the time and I hardly ever get out of focus shots. In fact, I probably had a higher % of OOF shots during my time with the manual-focus-only CV 17.5 than with any of the AF lenses.

I understand all of Talkingdrum's points about the potential for making bad assumptions on what's in focus in the green rectangle but with a little care and understanding of how the system works the problems are pretty insubstantial IMHO.

The point about focusing on the eye is a good one, but the Olympus eye detect AF feature is superb and it makes perfectly sharp portraits much easier than MF.

I'm no Johnny-come-lately who has never used MF either - I started with a Practica L back in the 70s. But I like the fact that technology can make our lives easier and deliver better results.
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Re: No Manual Focus Assist with the 17mm 1.8???

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I wasn't aware of the rectangle thing, thanks for the info.

Personally I find AF to be something akin to a focus lottery and I avoid it if I can. However, I think manufacturers have hit a gold mine here; it's so much easier to make a servo assisted focusing system without distance and DoF scales, plus the gubbins to make it work reliably.

Who in God's name thought AF was a good idea? Good for the lazy photographer, maybe.
Well Steve, I know you're a great street photographer so I hate to disagree with you - but manufacturers certainly don't invest all the effort they do in AF systems because it's "easy". They do it because AF is, for the vast majority of photographers, a fast and reliable method for getting sharp shots - shots which are often nowadays viewed at very high resolutions and taken with wide lenses with narrow DOF. The bar on what's acceptably sharp is higher than it's ever been.

And please, AF is not the refuse of the lazy photographer - it's the refuse of the smart photographer who learns how it works and uses it properly!
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Re: No Manual Focus Assist with the 17mm 1.8???

Paul, have to correct you, I've never been a great street tog, and never will be. In fact I'm doing less and less these days, my interest recently has been 'colour pop' having studied Hass and Leiter. And once I get my head around using analogue and no chimping (how I miss chimping ) my intentions are heading towards colour reversal.
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Old 6th May 2017
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Re: No Manual Focus Assist with the 17mm 1.8???

Interesting discussion. I wasn't aware of the rectangle effect in af either.

Oh and no problem John I appreciated your humour
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Re: No Manual Focus Assist with the 17mm 1.8???

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Originally Posted by Talkingdrum View Post
... the focus points are on the green lines of the rectangle.
Actually, the reality is more complex. This post thread over on DPR (specifically on the E-M1ii) illustrates it pretty well:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/59478635
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Re: No Manual Focus Assist with the 17mm 1.8???

I posted this last night but it seems to have disappeared??? (maybe I only pressed "preview post" and not "submit reply".)
Anyway here it is again:
Here is a screen shot from a review on youtube of this lens. Whilst extolling the virtues of the manual clutch the reviewer failed to notice that he has just focused PAST infinity! - a long way past (see attached picture)
Having established in this thread that the clutch is not meant for engaging manual focus in any normal sense but merely to put it into manual and to use the depth of field scale for focusing, this requires an accurate depth of field scale. My depth of field scale is the same as in the reviewer's. It's not just out, it is WAY OUT! It is utterly useless for that purpose as well.
Surely the everyone who has bought this lens has paid a percentage of the cost of their purchase (the implementation of this feature won't have come cheap) on something that is totally unfit for purpose - any purpose!
Incidentally I checked my Olympus pro lens (the only other 4/3 lens I own as I am new to this system) and the distance scale goes so far beyond infinity it's in another galaxy! Again I'm speechless.
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Re: No Manual Focus Assist with the 17mm 1.8???

Ive owned and sold the 1:1.8 17mm and although the overall build and feel was superb, I was less impressed with manual focus in what I think the manufacturers call the snapshot mode. I was aware of focus beyond infinity (what a concept, you normally need dilithium crystals ) but reconciled the need of the autofocus servo mechanism to overshoot, otherwise the motor would stall against the end stops, with a sudden peak in current.
What I wasn't aware of however was that the pull back ring just operated as an on/off switch.
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Old 6th May 2017
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Re: No Manual Focus Assist with the 17mm 1.8???

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I posted this last night but it seems to have disappeared???
That's because you posted it in your Highlight Clipping thread.
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Re: No Manual Focus Assist with the 17mm 1.8???

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That's because you posted it in your Highlight Clipping thread.
Damn! Never post on the internet after hitting the brandy
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Re: No Manual Focus Assist with the 17mm 1.8???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talkingdrum View Post
I posted this last night but it seems to have disappeared??? (maybe I only pressed "preview post" and not "submit reply".)
Anyway here it is again:
Here is a screen shot from a review on youtube of this lens. Whilst extolling the virtues of the manual clutch the reviewer failed to notice that he has just focused PAST infinity! - a long way past (see attached picture)
Having established in this thread that the clutch is not meant for engaging manual focus in any normal sense but merely to put it into manual and to use the depth of field scale for focusing, this requires an accurate depth of field scale. My depth of field scale is the same as in the reviewer's. It's not just out, it is WAY OUT! It is utterly useless for that purpose as well.
Surely the everyone who has bought this lens has paid a percentage of the cost of their purchase (the implementation of this feature won't have come cheap) on something that is totally unfit for purpose - any purpose!
Incidentally I checked my Olympus pro lens (the only other 4/3 lens I own as I am new to this system) and the distance scale goes so far beyond infinity it's in another galaxy! Again I'm speechless.
I think we've got it now that you're not impressed with the MF clutch on the 17mm f1.8! In a sense I agree with you - I think it's a pretty lame feature, but since I rarely use MF it's not something that bothers me. You'll find the same problem exists on pretty much all the mirrorless cameras using their native lenses. It's just how it is. The systems are designed for AF.

If MF that stops at infinity + mirrorless is really how you want to operate I think your best bet is to use a proper mechanically linked MF lens together with a Sony A7. The Sony A7 series offer excellent focus peaking and together with a huge selection of 35mm legacy lenses (the Olympus OM lenses included) and native MF lenses like the Zeiss Loxia you'll get the experience you're seeking. I don't think that drive-by-wire MF trickery is going to deliver what you're looking for.

Well, either that or a Leica rangefinder?
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Re: No Manual Focus Assist with the 17mm 1.8???

Leica are probably top of the tree for RF, but with more or less any RF you'll find MF a joy to use. But be very careful. It will put you off AF once you get the hang of it. Plus you can focus with both eyes open.
Leica RFs need not be expensive either, some very good analogue versions can be picked up sub 1k.
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Re: No Manual Focus Assist with the 17mm 1.8???

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Originally Posted by pdk42 View Post
I think we've got it now that you're not impressed with the MF clutch on the 17mm f1.8! In a sense I agree with you - I think it's a pretty lame feature, but since I rarely use MF it's not something that bothers me. You'll find the same problem exists on pretty much all the mirrorless cameras using their native lenses. It's just how it is. The systems are designed for AF.

If MF that stops at infinity + mirrorless is really how you want to operate I think your best bet is to use a proper mechanically linked MF lens together with a Sony A7. The Sony A7 series offer excellent focus peaking and together with a huge selection of 35mm legacy lenses (the Olympus OM lenses included) and native MF lenses like the Zeiss Loxia you'll get the experience you're seeking. I don't think that drive-by-wire MF trickery is going to deliver what you're looking for.

Well, either that or a Leica rangefinder?
I'm making much more of a fuss than the problem warrants. It's just that it took me a bit by surprise when I put the lens on. I have the 12-100 and the clutch works great on that. I just thought and wanted the 17mm to work in the same way.
I did look at the A7 but came across this really interesting article which drives home the pointlessness of full frame mirrorless cameras and it made a lot of sense to me so I went for the micro 4/3:
https://petapixel.com/2016/04/04/son...fatal-mistake/

Like I said in a previous post, I have a full frame DSLR (D700) along with ALL the lenses (I've been shooting for nearly 50 years) along with a Leica rangefinder (film), Hasselblad, Bronica, Mamiya etc etc all of which I still use. I have been using a fuji x100t as a keep in the pocket camera.
I'm going on my honeymoon to Indonesia in a couple of months so I wanted to take something more versatile than the x100t but my new wife would not appreciate me lugging around my usual bag of bodies and lenses so opted for the OMD-1 MK2 with the 12-100. Before it arrived I kept my expectations of the system realistic as it's an MFT system with a lens with such a broad focal range but took it to Madrid last week a couple of days after I got the camera and I have to say I'm really blown away by the results. Not just the image quality but the usability of the camera as well. The MF assists are fantastic and histogram design is great (so much better than the fuji). I decided when I returned I will be using the OMD much more than I thought hence buying as walk around lens and using it in place of the x100t. Despite my moaning I love the camera and I'm waiting for the 20mm 1.7 to arrive to replace the 17mm which I sent back (20mm will suit me much more then 17mm).
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