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Join our unique resource for Olympus Four Thirds E-System DSLR and Pen and OM-D Micro Four Thirds photographers. Show your images via our free e-group photo gallery. Please read the e-group.uk.net forum terms and conditions before posting for the first time. Above all, welcome!


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Looking for improvement This is the e-group critique board. If you post a picture here it will be assumed that you are looking for comprehensive technical feedback - both good and bad, but always respectful. Only post pictures here if you can deal with potentially negative constructive criticism. Anyone is qualified to comment and post feedback, and everyone is encouraged to do so. NB: "Looking for Improvement" is the place to post any pictures you would like advice on improving, no matter how bad you might think they are.

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Old 30th January 2017
RovingMike RovingMike is offline
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Is this best I can get from E-M1?

I rarely do landscape, or shoot in raw, so not sure whether what I have is the best result I can get.
I converted to Tiff in Viewer 3 and did levels etc in Photoshop. My issue is the artefacts in sky and shadow areas when blown up to 200%. They are on the raw file, so not compression, or any result of conversion to Jpeg.
Result looks way below a competent landscape image to me, but can I expect more from 4/3?
The forum says I can't post the link here, but next will be my 6th, so please look for it there.
Thanks, Mike
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Old 30th January 2017
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Graham_of_Rainham Graham_of_Rainham is offline
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Re: Is this best I can get from E-M1?

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Originally Posted by RovingMike View Post
I rarely do landscape, or shoot in raw, so not sure whether what I have is the best result I can get.
I converted to Tiff in Viewer 3 and did levels etc in Photoshop. My issue is the artefacts in sky and shadow areas when blown up to 200%. They are on the raw file, so not compression, or any result of conversion to Jpeg.
Result looks way below a competent landscape image to me, but can I expect more from 4/3?
The forum says I can't post the link here, but next will be my 6th, so please look for it there.
Thanks, Mike
Looking at Your Image I can see the artifacts in the sky as you describe. You say you don't shoot in RAW and the exif indicates this is a jpg file...

This is where the artifacts are coming from. An 8-bit jpg has not got the range of colours to produce a smooth sky.

I see this a lot when I visit photographic clubs to judge competitions, and I always suggest using RAW files. HERE is why.

See also my "demonstration" at: http://e-group.uk.net/forum/showpost...41&postcount=3

Consider setting the camera to RAW + jpg such that you have the best of both worlds to work in.

Great picture by the way...
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Old 30th January 2017
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Re: Is this best I can get from E-M1?

Thanks Graham. Didn't explain that well, I did shoot this in raw and the artefacts are visible in the raw file. Was converted to Tiff in Viewer 3 and then converted in PS to Jpeg for uploading. Happy to email the raw file if you would like to take a closer look, would appreciate it?
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Old 30th January 2017
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Re: Is this best I can get from E-M1?

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Originally Posted by RovingMike View Post
Thanks Graham. Didn't explain that well, I did shoot this in raw and the artefacts are visible in the raw file. Was converted to Tiff in Viewer 3 and then converted in PS to Jpeg for uploading. Happy to email the raw file if you would like to take a closer look, would appreciate it?
I've sent you an e-mail, so hopefully I can see what's happened.

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Old 30th January 2017
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Re: Is this best I can get from E-M1?

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Thanks Graham. Didn't explain that well, I did shoot this in raw and the artefacts are visible in the raw file.
Raw files aren't viewable. They're just raw data and only contain greyscale information anyway. What you see on the screen is a conversion carried out by the viewing software and the quality of the image may be affected by the software.

BTW: Your images look fine to me on my cheap laptop!

Jim
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Old 30th January 2017
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Re: Is this best I can get from E-M1?

Can you make the raw file available? - happy to take a look. I do a lot of landscapes on the E-M1 and am very happy with the results. OTOH, viewing at 200% is not a good strategy on any camera
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Old 30th January 2017
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Re: Is this best I can get from E-M1?

Thanks, but still trying to get to grips with where the artefacts are coming from. Understand I'm not looking at a "raw" file (didn't actually know that the viewer could degrade what I see), but somewhere along the line, the image at 200% in either the Tiff or Jpeg conversions is quite poor.
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Old 30th January 2017
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Re: Is this best I can get from E-M1?

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OTOH, viewing at 200% is not a good strategy on any camera
I agree completely! Anyway why choose 200%, why not 500% or greater?

Jim
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Old 30th January 2017
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Re: Is this best I can get from E-M1?

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Can you make the raw file available? - happy to take a look. I do a lot of landscapes on the E-M1 and am very happy with the results. OTOH, viewing at 200% is not a good strategy on any camera
Yep it's here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/x6oqaamt8o...60890.ORF?dl=0

Yes I used to shoot a lot of travel for Rex Features before their takeover and never had rejections, even shooting Jpeg. I'm sure I remember smoother skies than this though, even with the E-M1. I looked at 200%, because I had the feeling at 100% that it was not great. Maybe I do expect too much.
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Old 30th January 2017
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Re: Is this best I can get from E-M1?

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I agree completely! Anyway why choose 200%, why not 500% or greater?

Jim
Not having any other camera, that's rather what I'm trying to establish. 200% is just to make the issues more visible. Question was is this the best E-M1 can do, not what size should one view it at?

But my wife's iPhone 7 at either 100% or 200% with same skies is vastly better.
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Old 30th January 2017
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Re: Is this best I can get from E-M1?

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...Question was is this the best E-M1 can do?
Answer NO:

Sorry to be blunt, but having looked at your ORF, the histogram shows that you have only used 3/4 of the available dynamic range of the sensor. As such the sensor is being under used in its most sensitive range and all the data you have, is confined to the darker less sensitive (left) end of the Dynamic Range.



This is as good a "Tutorial" as any on "exposure to the right", but there are many more out there to look at
http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tut...techniques.htm

This is unfortunately a common issue that needs careful consideration and some modification of technique, to get the full Image Quality from any camera.

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Re: Is this best I can get from E-M1?

Great thanks. There had to be a reason, the images are awful. Will take a look.
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Old 30th January 2017
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Re: Is this best I can get from E-M1?

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Originally Posted by Graham_of_Rainham View Post
Answer NO:

Sorry to be blunt, but having looked at your ORF, the histogram shows that you have only used 3/4 of the available dynamic range of the sensor. As such the sensor is being under used in its most sensitive range and all the data you have, is confined to the darker less sensitive (left) end of the Dynamic Range.



This is as good a "Tutorial" as any on "exposure to the right", but there are many more out there to look at
http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tut...techniques.htm

This is unfortunately a common issue that needs careful consideration and some modification of technique, to get the full Image Quality from any camera.

Well, I dunno. Hard to argue against someone with Graham's experience but here's my take...

- The shot is a little underexposed, but the snow on those mountains is getting cose to clipping (rawdigger reports the G2 channel at almost 3200 - clipping is at 3880). Maybe an extra half to one stop of extra exposure, but no more.

- I actually think the overall shot is OK. There is a little noise in the sky, but this is common on the 16Mp u43 sensors. It'll never show in a print but if you need it clean at 100% on screen then adding a little NR will help.

I'd personally be quite happy with the shot. If you feel strongly otherwise then I think it might be time to go and buy a Sony FF!

Just my 2c.
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Old 30th January 2017
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... Just my 2c.
Too much time in the US...

You are right and, as ever was, the skill lies in knowing how the camera performs in the real world.

I do most work in a studio and light is measured with hand held meters and set manually. Put me out in the cold and I have to really think hard about a whole different set of conditions and techniques on how to get the best results.

I really hope this thread attracts members comments that are far better qualified than I am to comment on pictures taken in the great outdoors...

I once heard an excellent photographer describe AWB as the invention of Satan. HDR incurred the wrath of National Geographic, while all these things are capabilities that are built in for us to use, there is no shortcut to learning how to use them to the best effect, according to our individual preferences.

One day I hope to get out with John (Zuiko) so he can teach me some good techniques on landscape photography.

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Old 30th January 2017
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Re: Is this best I can get from E-M1?

Expose to the right!

Why? Because half the data in a scene is in the brightest stop. This means that if you underexpose by just one stop, you've missed half the data. If you then PP the image and stretch the data to get a full range of tones, you risk introducing discontinuities in the tones which manifests itself as banding/posterisation.

Did I mention - expose to the right?

Jim
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