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The lounge Relax, take a break from photo and camera talk - have a chat about something else for a change. Just keep it clean and polite!

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Old 14th May 2019
Jax Jax is offline
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Scottish High Court Appeal

Yet another source of income for the solicitors, no doubt paid from the public purse. The UK is in very urgent need of judicial review for it's entire legal system. Hopefully, the Scottish High Court will do the right and decent thing and double his sentence.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/crime...cid=spartanntp

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Old 14th May 2019
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Re: Scottish High Court Appeal

Just put him the general prison population and we will save on prison costs
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Old 14th May 2019
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Re: Scottish High Court Appeal

Cases like this deserve the death penalty.
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Old 14th May 2019
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Re: Scottish High Court Appeal

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Originally Posted by The Technician View Post
Just put him the general prison population and we will save on prison costs
I was about to post “put him in a cell with Bubba” but I see I was beaten to it!
Assuming they got the right person then yes, death sentence and have done with it.
“Oh but he’s a child, he’s 17, surely we can help him”....
yeah, and when he does it again... (it’s happened)

Sigh
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Old 13th June 2019
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Re: Scottish High Court Appeal

Unfortunately it seems that for many years now our justice system has been driven more by the availability of prison places than the risks to society of the criminals in question.

(There is also the matter of using minor motoring and civil offences for revenue collection purposes but that is an entirely different subject.)

There is far too much reoffending so either prison isn't working, sentences are too short, or both. I believe there is also a strong case for 'life meaning life' for the more odious offenders so that we can be assured they will never see the light of day again; or at least until they are too frail to pose any risk to society.
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Old 13th June 2019
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Re: Scottish High Court Appeal

I'm conflicted on this issue.

One the one hand my initial gut feeling is to 'bang 'em up and throw away the key'. On the other, I'm reminded of the case of Jimmy Boyle, who I understand was described by the police as 'The most violent man in Scotland' and was reputed to have nailed a rival to the floor, but is now a reformed person:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Boyle_(artist)

Still, looking at his photograph, I wouldn't want to get on the wrong side of him!

Jim
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Old 13th June 2019
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Re: Scottish High Court Appeal

I suppose this all comes back to making prison work.

In an ideal world every criminal would have an 'Ephiphany moment' whilst in jail and would come out a reformed character. Some do but most don't.

I don't know if you saw the BBC report yesterday about a former gang leader who thanked the police for locking him up and changing his life, but it made interesting reading. This should be a perfect opportunity to use the experience and powers of persuasion of an ex Gang Master for the good of all.

BBC Report - Former 'dangerous' gang leader thanks police for prison

I belive Britian has one of the highest prison populations per capita in the western world so we must be doing something wrong. The difficulty of securing worthwhile employment after prison is a major problem but in a competitive jobs market who would, by choice, employ an ex-convict?
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Old 13th June 2019
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Re: Scottish High Court Appeal

I suggest you lot read "Stories of the Law and How It’s Broken – by The Secret Barrister" (it's English Law though, so not relevant to the case in question)

It may transform your understanding of how and why these kinds of cases cause the baying crowd to get agitated and why the baying crowd is always wrong.

It's a brilliant, well written account of why we are where we are at today with the English Justice system, can't recommend it highly enough, particularly for the "hang-em-high" brigade. And, I might say, "where we are today" is a DEEPLY worrying place.
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Old 13th June 2019
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Re: Scottish High Court Appeal

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Originally Posted by jdal View Post
I suggest you lot read "Stories of the Law and How It’s Broken – by The Secret Barrister" (it's English Law though, so not relevant to the case in question)

It may transform your understanding of how and why these kinds of cases cause the baying crowd to get agitated and why the baying crowd is always wrong.

It's a brilliant, well written account of why we are where we are at today with the English Justice system, can't recommend it highly enough, particularly for the "hang-em-high" brigade. And, I might say, "where we are today" is a DEEPLY worrying place.
This 17 year old "person" took a 6 yr old girl from her bed into the woods. He tortured, raped and murdered her. He stated he was "entertained by rape" and he was "satisfied" with the murder, describing it as "a moment of opportunity".

I admit to not reading the book in question but also, as a member of "you lot" I do admit to being part of the "baying crowd" and the "hang em high brigade" that you also quote.

Why we, the public should have to pay for an appeal to reduce the sentence of a disgusting piece of scum such as this is totally beyond me. Maybe the book explains the reasons behind such ridiculous decisions but as it only applies to English law then in this case, as you say, it is totally irrelevant.

Having already been censured on here for the use of "Rich Language", I am unable to express my opinions as to what, in an ideal world, should happen to such individuals as this but, I can assure you, it is definitely not a reduction in his jail sentence !


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Re: Scottish High Court Appeal

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdal View Post
I suggest you lot read "Stories of the Law and How It’s Broken – by The Secret Barrister" (it's English Law though, so not relevant to the case in question)

It may transform your understanding of how and why these kinds of cases cause the baying crowd to get agitated and why the baying crowd is always wrong.

It's a brilliant, well written account of why we are where we are at today with the English Justice system, can't recommend it highly enough, particularly for the "hang-em-high" brigade. And, I might say, "where we are today" is a DEEPLY worrying place.
The English criminal justice system undoubtedly leaves a lot to be desired from all perspectives, but as a law abiding and tax paying citizen I expect to be kept safe from violent criminals, and I expect violent criminals to receive appropriate punishments that protect me, my family and others members of the public. Is that unreasonable?

In my view our 'modern tolerant and liberal' attitudes have done immeasurable harm to our criminal justice system and have made this country less safe than it would otherwise have been. Like it or not, (for what its worth I don't particularly like it), capital punishment was a permanent solution to some of society's vilest offenders.

Only a misguided Liberal would seek to justify the pre-meditated torture, rape and murder of an innocent child. I am sure the warm platitudes expressed towards the accused will be of great comfort to her distraught family.
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Old 13th June 2019
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Re: Scottish High Court Appeal

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Originally Posted by Naughty Nigel View Post

Only a misguided Liberal would seek to justify the pre-meditated torture, rape and murder of an innocent child. I am sure the warm platitudes expressed towards the accused will be of great comfort to her distraught family.
I make no comment whatsoever on the Scottish case in the OP. It is a matter for the Scottish Courts.

What I would say, however, is that savage and ongoing cuts to EVERY part of the criminal justice system - from the Police to the Prisons via the Courts is doing demonstrably more damage to the safety of the people in this country than "going soft" on criminals (which IMHO is a perception unproven by statistics). Like I said, I recommend you read that book. It is an objective assessment of the system based on real events in a criminal barristers life and explains clearly why things appear "soft", why sentences seem short, why there are stupidities in Statute Law etc.

And my last word is that I prefer the rule of law to mob rule.
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Old 13th June 2019
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Re: Scottish High Court Appeal

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Originally Posted by jdal View Post
I recommend you read that book. It is an objective assessment of the system based on real events in a criminal barristers life and explains clearly why things appear "soft", why sentences seem short, why there are stupidities in Statute Law etc.
On the basis that I respect your judgement John, I've ordered a second-hand copy of the book from Amazon.

Jim
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Old 13th June 2019
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Re: Scottish High Court Appeal

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Originally Posted by Jim Ford View Post
On the basis that I respect your judgement John, I've ordered a second-hand copy of the book from Amazon.

Jim
Me too, but from an independent book shop.

The minds of barristers have always puzzled and fascinated me.
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