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The lounge Relax, take a break from photo and camera talk - have a chat about something else for a change. Just keep it clean and polite!

View Poll Results: Are you getting fed up with Brexit and should we go back to discussing other things ?
YES - Close the thread 21 47.73%
NO - Keep the debate going on for eternity 23 52.27%
Voters: 44. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1441  
Old 1st October 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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Originally Posted by wornish View Post
Did you not see the Hamas flags at the Labour conference, don't you listen to the news broadcasts.

Corbyn supports them all. He is such a nice chap.

The young cant see it I agree, but this is where experience is needed.
Corbyn doesn't support Hamas. He didn't support the IRA either. That's all spin by the right wing media. Remember that it was Major that brokered the dialogue with the IRA that led to the peace settlement. In the end you need to negotiate with your enemies to stop wars. Ask the Americans today about what they're doing with the Taliban in Afganistan, or about how the Vietnam war ended.

Remember too that the mess in the Middle East is mainly of the West's making (and Britain played a massive part in that).
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  #1442  
Old 1st October 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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Just do not get ill in the US - the insurance cover is not all encompassing
I totally agree , never claimed it was faultless. No where is perfect.
But I would rather have a dynamic country that is proud of itself than a vassal state grasping at whatever the elite choose to give us. Its citizens fly the Stars and Stripes with pride. Here we are afraid to fly the Union Jack because it might upset someone
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  #1443  
Old 1st October 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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Originally Posted by pdk42 View Post
Corbyn doesn't support Hamas. He didn't support the IRA either. That's all spin by the right wing media. Remember that it was Major that brokered the dialogue with the IRA that led to the peace settlement. In the end you need to negotiate with your enemies to stop wars. Ask the Americans today about what they're doing with the Taliban in Afganistan, or about how the Vietnam war ended.

Remember too that the mess in the Middle East is mainly of the West's making (and Britain played a massive part in that).
Nice try, but facts are facts. He is an antisemetic, Hamas supporter and an IRA and Russia supporter, a communist, and a seriously dangerous man.
His activists are thugs.
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  #1444  
Old 1st October 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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I totally agree , never claimed it was faultless. No where is perfect.
But I would rather have a dynamic country that is proud of itself than a vassal state grasping at whatever the elite choose to give us. Its citizens fly the Stars and Stripes with pride. Here we are afraid fly the Union Jack because it might upset someone
Well, let's see. Maybe America is "dynamic", but...

- It's got the 2nd highest poverty rate of developed countries (only Israel is worse - and their figure is so high because the poverty of non-Jewish Israelis is chronic)

- Firearm homicide rates are about 6x worse than the nearest high-income state

- It's ranked 16th out of 23 major economies in adult literacy

- It spends almost 3x per capita what the UK spends on health and yet there are 27m people without health care insurance of any sort

- It represents 5% of the world's population but consumes about about 25% of its natural resources

- Income inequality in the US is twice as bad as in Europe. The bottom 50% of Americans take only about 13% of the nation's wealth. The comparable figure in Europe is 21%.

- The US lags all major economies in terms of educational achievement at comparable ages.

Sure - it likes flying its flag - but have they really got much to be proud about?

Don't get me wrong - I quite like the US and the people, but it's not the vision of the sort of country I want to live in.

As a fully signed-up member of the EU we are not a vassal state. Who are the "Elites" to whom you refer?
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  #1445  
Old 1st October 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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Nice try, but facts are facts. He is an antisemetic, Hamas supporter and an IRA and Russia supporter, a communist, and a seriously dangerous man.
His activists are thugs.
They are not facts, they're opinions - and opinions straight from the Daily Mail.

The media in this country is vile and so strongly biased that we've become inured to it.

Was it The Sun last week that accused the EU of being Dirty Rats? That's not reporting, that's not informing - it's just ranting to someone's agenda. I really don't get why we think that the agenda of massive media organisations, invariably owned by bloated plutocrats, is an agenda that will serve the common man (or woman).

Is this balanced, intelligent, informative? Will it encourage considered reflection based on the facts? Crap articles like these below have poisoned the British people. How can anyone have a balanced discussion when we're fed this stuff:


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  #1446  
Old 1st October 2018
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Graham_of_Rainham Graham_of_Rainham is offline
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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Originally Posted by wornish View Post
<snip> I would rather have a dynamic country that is proud of itself than a vassal state grasping at whatever the elite choose to give us. <snip>
I would rather have a seat at the table, at which the decisions are made, than have to abide by those decisions in order to get a trade deal, which will be worse than the one we currently have.

By definition none of the members of the EU can be “vassal states”, which is an archaic phraseology often coined by the likes of Boris and Jacob, in their outmoded diatribes...

Working in a FE college has been enlightening, in the way that generation is almost entirely forward thinking and looking to improvement, creation and growth. The vast majority of the people there cannot see any sense in leaving something that is and will remain so much better than what we will have outside of the EU.
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  #1447  
Old 1st October 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

What's interesting too about the media is this:

- Youngsters hardly ever read newspapers. Surprisingly they don't have the same maligned view of Europe.

- Older people read stuff like The Mail, The Sun etc. Surprisingly, they mostly hate the EU.

Of course, newspapers are dead. I give them another 10 years before they pass into irrelevance. In some ways that's pretty depressing - especially since the new media (Facebook etc) don't have much to be proud of either !

Free governments the world over aren't doing enough to ensure we have balanced and independent news media. It's the lifeblood of democracy. Brexit is a classic example of the people being manipulated by powerful agendas owned by the rich (ah - maybe these are the real Elites rather than those to whom Wornish refers!?).
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  #1448  
Old 1st October 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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Originally Posted by Graham_of_Rainham View Post
By definition none of the members of the EU can be “vassal states”, which is an archaic phraseology often coined by the likes of Boris and Jacob, in their outmoded diatribes...
Totally agree. I don't think anyone had heard the word "vassal" for a hundred years until Rees-Mogg used it in the Brexit argument.

BTW - a few facts about JRM:

- He heavily invests in and promotes oil, gas, tobacco and mining companies

- He's against practically all environmental protections

- He's close to Trump and his cabal (Breitbart network etc)

- Like Trump he sees a deep-state conspiracy by the establishment and wants to reduce the power of important political institutions that protect us from people like Trump

- He's staunchly religious and opposed to same-sex marriage, contraception and abortion at all costs.

Is this really a man we should trust? Does he represent the best course for our nation when the welfare and prosperity of the masses are considered? I see him as someone with a narrow and privileged world view who hates political institutions that might get in the way of his own wealth and power. In truth, a British Trump.
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  #1449  
Old 2nd October 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

Wow seem to hit a few nerves here:

Where did I say the US was perfect? No country is, but at least it is a proud nation.

Whats wrong with being an investor like JRM ?
So all Oil, Gas, Tobacco and Mining companies are bad ? interesting viewpoint there.
How much of our pension funds are invested in these industries ?

Our education system has been taken over by lefties.
At the labour conference last week the teacher said if they get education right we won't have any more Tories and he got a rapturous applause.
Its called brainwashing the young not teaching them to be independent thinkers.

and finally

Why is JRM being a devout catholic an issue ? How tolerant.
I would trust JRM every time over Corbyn and his front bench.
I don't want to see the UK become Venezuela
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  #1450  
Old 2nd October 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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Originally Posted by pdk42 View Post

- Youngsters hardly ever read newspapers. Surprisingly they don't have the same maligned view of Europe

.......

Free governments the world over aren't doing enough to ensure we have balanced and independent news media.
Youngsters also have a very limited life experience, their info mostly comes from social media (kinda assuming here!) they’ve not had years to develop a healthy cynicism that cones from seeing so many politicians try and fail on so many levels, they’re still probably rebellious to a point. They have no grasp of the vast quantities of money that is squandered by organisations like the EU, money simply blown on bureaucracy and lining the pockets of the people who have managed to get themselves onto the gravy train. They seem to see things in black and white with no shades of grey (probably around 49-51 actual shades)
If a politician promises them free somethingorother then all they see is the free thing, there’s no analysis of how that’s actually paid for - I guess they are too trusting (see earlier comment about healthy cynicism!)
The Marxist tramp promises them the earth and they believe him.
They will eventually come to realize the error of their young ways.

As far as balanced and independent news media is concerned, too many people have too many vested interests for the news to be balanced. Money talks.
  #1451  
Old 2nd October 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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Oh, and Europe when we've left and they hate us!
They will not want us visiting Europe either?



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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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Why is JRM being a devout catholic an issue
Catholicism has a heck of a lot to answer for I’m afraid although JRM is pretty low down on that list.

He is a total tw@ though!
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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They will not want us visiting Europe either?



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Old 2nd October 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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I promised myself that I'd not post in this thread again....

I've now reached the following conclusion:

- There's no such thing as a soft Brexit without us becoming a vassal state
- Chequers is dead. Any deal that dilutes the single market will be rejected by the EU
- Conclusion - we are 100% on course for a no-deal, WTO rules exit
- We WILL have a hard border between Eire and Northern Ireland
- Relations with the EU will be toxic
- The economy WILL take a huge dive
- It'll take us a decade at least to get back to where we were
- The generation that most wanted to leave will shuffle off the coil
- The country will beg to rejoin

Let's set a diary date for Oct 2028 and see if I'm right...
I believe you.
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Old 2nd October 2018
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Re: Political: We're doomed, Captain Mannering...

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Just do not get ill in the US - the insurance cover is not all encompassing
But you can always make a 'crowdfunding' appeal for treatment - or go bankrupt, or lose your house and everything else.

There also have been cases where people have been insured with their job, but have lost the job through illness. They've then lost their cover and been unable to get more because their illness is a 'pre-existing condition'.

Jim
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