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Olympus OM-D E-M1 The first Micro Four Thirds camera that offers phase detect focusing so you can use Four Thirds DSLR lenses normally as well a Micro Four Thirds lenses.

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Old 17th September 2013
Xenon Xenon is offline
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C-AF on M4/3 lenses

I pre-ordered the E-M1, more as an act of faith, as there is inevitably a lack of real reviews that offer real hands-on experience as yet.

I'm wondering if there is going to be any REAL benefit for someone like me not possessing any 4/3 lenses?

It seems obvious that anyone with 4/3 lenses now has a "vehicle" to use them, or an upgrade route from the E-5, so no problem choosing....assuming they want a newer body.

I'm still wondering if the C-AF will offer a substantial improvement for M4/3 lenses, or whether I'd be better getting a DSLR to cover the growing interest I have in BIF and sport, or whether the E-M1 WILL offer me enough??

Ian replied to me in another thread suggesting that Olympus themselves feel the E-M1 should be on a par with the Nikon 7100, which would be enough for my needs, but then, I guess, they are going to say that aren't they?

I would like to see someone review the E-M1 with some rapid action, so we can all see just how good it actually is, not that I'm expecting 7D performance, although that would be nice

Damian McGillicuddy was reputedly on the Isle of Man doing some action reviews, but like many others he seems to have gone quiet!

Otherwise without any firm confirmation, as tempting as the new model is, maybe I should save my pennies?
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Old 17th September 2013
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Re: C-AF on M4/3 lenses

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenon View Post
I pre-ordered the E-M1, more as an act of faith, as there is inevitably a lack of real reviews that offer real hands-on experience as yet.

I'm wondering if there is going to be any REAL benefit for someone like me not possessing any 4/3 lenses?

It seems obvious that anyone with 4/3 lenses now has a "vehicle" to use them, or an upgrade route from the E-5, so no problem choosing....assuming they want a newer body.

I'm still wondering if the C-AF will offer a substantial improvement for M4/3 lenses, or whether I'd be better getting a DSLR to cover the growing interest I have in BIF and sport, or whether the E-M1 WILL offer me enough??

Ian replied to me in another thread suggesting that Olympus themselves feel the E-M1 should be on a par with the Nikon 7100, which would be enough for my needs, but then, I guess, they are going to say that aren't they?

I would like to see someone review the E-M1 with some rapid action, so we can all see just how good it actually is, not that I'm expecting 7D performance, although that would be nice

Damian McGillicuddy was reputedly on the Isle of Man doing some action reviews, but like many others he seems to have gone quiet!

Otherwise without any firm confirmation, as tempting as the new model is, maybe I should save my pennies?

checkout Mein Thein's review he compares it to the D4 and 7100 and it is well ahead in his grid/table
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Old 17th September 2013
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Re: C-AF on M4/3 lenses

Damian McGilliguddy has gone quiet I believe because he is on location, and reportedly suffering from man flu. I am hoping this is the delay in his posts, not that the camera isn't performing. Either way he will tell us, eventually. I too am eagerly awaiting the night action shot he mentioned in his last video.
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Old 17th September 2013
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Re: C-AF on M4/3 lenses

Thanks Chevvy, I had read his review in which he says :-

".....With PDAF on sensor, that last bastion of the DSLR is eroding, too. Practically, the D600′s AF system still tracks better than the E-M1; I spent some time shooting traffic and found that the E-M1 would perform similar to or slightly better than the D200 generation of cameras in terms of tracking ability; I think with another iteration or judicious firmware update, the gap will, shrink even further......."

So I'm not sure he feels it is up there with the current mid-range DSLRs in fact.
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Old 17th September 2013
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Re: C-AF on M4/3 lenses

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Originally Posted by pvasc View Post
Damian McGilliguddy has gone quiet I believe because he is on location, and reportedly suffering from man flu. I am hoping this is the delay in his posts, not that the camera isn't performing. Either way he will tell us, eventually. I too am eagerly awaiting the night action shot he mentioned in his last video.
Yes, and he's busy with his workshop and ill. He has my sympathies!

I have no doubt I'm jumping the gun slightly, but the dearth of real reviews of action with M4/3 lenses is a slight cause for concern, together with the varying reviewers take on exactly how good C-AF is in reality, and as I said with M4/3 existing lenses in particular.

Is it around the D200 level, the D7100 level or 70D level, or still catching up?

I guess the jury is still out, but some real world testing would be handy!
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Old 17th September 2013
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Re: C-AF on M4/3 lenses

Robin Wong has posted some CAF test shots on his blog and seems quite impressed. I have a feeling that the E-M1 will not perform anywhere as well as the 7D or the top Nikons though. Hopefully it will not be too far behind.

Ron
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Old 17th September 2013
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Re: C-AF on M4/3 lenses

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Originally Posted by Olybirder View Post
Robin Wong has posted some CAF test shots on his blog and seems quite impressed. I have a feeling that the E-M1 will not perform anywhere as well as the 7D or the top Nikons though. Hopefully it will not be too far behind.

Ron
But they are panned shots of a large and not very fast moving subject (moped in heavy traffic) so the predictive af is not really being tested.

I still have not seen anyone testing it's capabilities for fast moving action and bif, I still have reservations on its capability there, although not being subjects I shoot very often it would not bother me .
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Re: C-AF on M4/3 lenses

Paul I did not see/read that bit you quoted

http://blog.mingthein.com/2013/09/11...e-m1-review-2/

Sorry here is the link Val sent to me - (I am having a "fluffy day" today ... and forgot it

AS soon as I get mine, I am off nearby BIG Birds and shall see how it performs. A friend has a recently trained Golden Eagle for me to enjoy

IF the EM-1 is not up to spec and FAILS IN MY NEEDS - it goes NO MESSING.

I was quite impressed by the Wong images taken from a car of a man and child on a scooter in heavy crowded streets. BUT whether that bodes well for a bird in the sky ... we shall see
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Re: C-AF on M4/3 lenses

Quote:
Originally Posted by OlyPaul View Post
But they are panned shots of a large and not very fast moving subject (moped in heavy traffic) so the predictive af is not really being tested.

I still have not seen anyone testing it's capabilities for fast moving action and bif, I still have reservations on its capability there, although not being subjects I shoot very often it would not bother me .
I think the rollerblade shots lower down are quite impressive - as far as I can tell from the small size. I know I would have trouble taking them with my E-30, especially with that busy background.

Ron
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Old 17th September 2013
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Re: C-AF on M4/3 lenses

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Originally Posted by OlyPaul View Post
...although not being subjects [Action/BIF] I shoot very often it would not bother me .
Quite! I've seen quite a few people on here being concerned about BIF but little evidence of that being executed well by them on a regular basis... {hides behind sofa }
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Old 17th September 2013
brian1208 brian1208 is offline
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Re: C-AF on M4/3 lenses

I can shoot BIF with my EM-5 + 75-300 and 35-100 (but not as easily as with my canon 7D + 70-300 LIS), I just needed to learn a different technique

I'm sure that the inclusion of PDAF will make it easier (but still not as easy as it was with the 7D).

Its good to see that the menu allows tuning of CAF acquisition and sensitivity

(C-AF Lock When [AF Mode] (P. 73) is set to [C-AF], the AF does not adjust to sudden changes in subject distance. Depending on the sensitivity selected, the time it takes for the AF to adjust will change)

this was one of the key factors that made the 7D so effective with BIF so I have hopes for a real improvement over the EM-5.

I hope to be able to let you know soon
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Re: C-AF on M4/3 lenses

Well, a week ago I posted 22 images on my Hands On Preview article using E-M1 with the 75-300 in C-AF photographing BIF. See:

http://fourthirds-user.com/2013/09/o..._preview.php/a

I don't claim these to be excellent - I am not a practised BIF photographer. But they do show that the camera does work with C-AF (with PDAF) on the E-M1 using a Micro Four Thirds lens. You could not get these results with an E-M5.

Ian
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Old 17th September 2013
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Re: C-AF on M4/3 lenses

thanks for the link Ian, I had missed it before

(I would have a slight debate with you over whether or not the BIF shots could have been got using the EM-5 though http://imagesfromnature.foliopic.com...in-flight-4173 )
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Re: C-AF on M4/3 lenses

Quote:
Originally Posted by brian1208 View Post
I can shoot BIF with my EM-5 + 75-300 and 35-100 (but not as easily as with my canon 7D + 70-300 LIS), I just needed to learn a different technique

I'm sure that the inclusion of PDAF will make it easier (but still not as easy as it was with the 7D).

Its good to see that the menu allows tuning of CAF acquisition and sensitivity

(C-AF Lock When [AF Mode] (P. 73) is set to [C-AF], the AF does not adjust to sudden changes in subject distance. Depending on the sensitivity selected, the time it takes for the AF to adjust will change)

this was one of the key factors that made the 7D so effective with BIF so I have hopes for a real improvement over the EM-5.

I hope to be able to let you know soon
Good points Brian.
I too have achieved some amazing BIFs and IIFs (insects) with the E-M5.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/crux_/9466866644/ as a fairly recent example.

It is possible, and as you say down to practice and technique.
It is far easier with my friend's 7D, and the keeper rate soars with that camera

As great opportunities can be rare, it makes sense to have a body and lens combination that gives a better chance of capturing that unique moment, rather than missing it because of poor AF.

It has to be a personal choice, and I, like many, appreciate the smaller package i.e weight and excellent lenses, but better than the E-M5 may not be enough for me....unless it is in at least the same league as the D7100, which is satisfactory, and any shortfall is then down to luck and technique
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Re: C-AF on M4/3 lenses

Quote:
Originally Posted by brian1208 View Post
thanks for the link Ian, I had missed it before

(I would have a slight debate with you over whether or not the BIF shots could have been got using the EM-5 though http://imagesfromnature.foliopic.com...in-flight-4173 )
Getting one shot of a distant bird in flight is possible using an E-M5 and 75-300, but very difficult and demands a well-honed technique and a lot of skill and luck. But getting a sequence as the bird flies is nigh on impossible because the AF can't maintain a lock unless the subject is fairly large in the frame and can be tracked very accurately by the photographer.

CDAF can only gauge which way to focus, not by how much. PDAF can, so it can discriminate between subjects that are nearer and further and usually you will be wanting to photograph the subject that is nearer, so a good C-AF system will bias the focusing to the nearer subject and once it has locked it should not need to make wild distance adjustments if focus is temporarily lost. Unfortunately CDAF C-AF will usually lose it very easily.

Also, Micro Four Thirds lenses (apart from the very slow and noisy original Olympus ones) are optimised for focus speed, which is very important for CDAF, but which benefits PDAF too.

I acknowledge that we haven't yet heard from a seasoned BIF expert with time using an E-M1 but that will come and I am confident that the feedback will be positive compared to an E-5 and especially an E-M5. The Canon EOS 7D is an exception and seems to have been designed for BIF and few other cameras out of the Nikon D4/Canon 1D league can compare.

Ian
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