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  #16  
Old 5th February 2019
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Re: My latest foray into FF mirrorless - and why I'm sticking with m43

The grass is not always greener...................
I think that many of us lust after new photographic toys whether they be m43rds based or full frame. They are all just means to an end and the best will be the ones that help you achieve this in the best way taking into account the things that matter most to you. For me m43rds will continue to be the system of choice. To reiterate, the grass is not always greener.........
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  #17  
Old 6th February 2019
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Re: My latest foray into FF mirrorless - and why I'm sticking with m43

A well considered and reasoned post Paul as always.

It's a debate that crops up at my club on occasions where a number of the more experienced members have gone over to m43, mostly EM1.2, and are all very happy. To a man/woman the size was the principle reason once they were convinced that the quality was there. The latter issue was resolved by those of us printing A3 and getting 10's in comps, selected for exhibitions and distinctions showing that the system is very much up to that job.

Even with the FF mania at the moment no one in the club is going back down that route because they love the great glass and small size as well as some of the features, which you mention Paul, like blinkies etc.

So here is another confirmed m43 junkie who is just waiting for a new sensor with more dynamic range and less noise at high ISO along with a few usability enhancements.

Hec
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  #18  
Old 6th February 2019
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Re: My latest foray into FF mirrorless - and why I'm sticking with m43

The grass can be greener on the other side ....... providing the grass is Olympus green.

This certainly happened for me, I came from a Sony A77ii to the EM1ii and have never regretted it for one second.
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  #19  
Old 6th February 2019
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Re: My latest foray into FF mirrorless - and why I'm sticking with m43

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy Hec View Post

So here is another confirmed m43 junkie who is just waiting for a new sensor with more dynamic range and less noise at high ISO along with a few usability enhancements.

Hec
I think that is a view that most of the m43 community share Hec. I'm still scratching my head why Olympus spent all that R&D money on the EM1x when putting an improved sensor in the bread and butter models would have given the brand and the format a much bigger shot in the arm.

Maybe there are big technological hurdles to overcome in order to fulfil that dream, and I totally understand that Olympus are not the owner of their own destiny there, but OTOH we do know that BSI is a technology that has delivered worthwhile improvements to both 1" and 135 sensors that is yet to reach m43. Surely it's just a question of asking Sony (or Tower Jazz) to make one for m43?

I've no idea how much that would cost, but I can't believe the EM1x development was cheap. Of course, that development project kept Olympus's own engineers busy and I suspect that was probably a big motivation behind the decision.
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  #20  
Old 6th February 2019
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Re: My latest foray into FF mirrorless - and why I'm sticking with m43

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I think that is a view that most of the m43 community share Hec. I'm still scratching my head why Olympus spent all that R&D money on the EM1x when putting an improved sensor in the bread and butter models would have given the brand and the format a much bigger shot in the arm.

Maybe there are big technological hurdles to overcome in order to fulfil that dream, and I totally understand that Olympus are not the owner of their own destiny there, but OTOH we do know that BSI is a technology that has delivered worthwhile improvements to both 1" and 135 sensors that is yet to reach m43. Surely it's just a question of asking Sony (or Tower Jazz) to make one for m43?

I've no idea how much that would cost, but I can't believe the EM1x development was cheap. Of course, that development project kept Olympus's own engineers busy and I suspect that was probably a big motivation behind the decision.
I wonder if some of the explanation is that were in a pause period in sensor development.

If you look on, say, Photons to Photos at the dynamic range and signal-to-noise ratio performance of sensors released over the past 2-3 years, there has been little improvement.

In fact, X-T2 to X-T3, A7R to A7RII to A7RIII, and D800 to D810 to D850 show no significant improvement whatsoever. Check the graphs at http://photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm

Yes there were improvements between say the 5D3 and 5D4, at and near base ISO, but Canon dynamic range and noise performance have always been a bit rubbish, comparatively.

So why should we expect an improvement over the past 2.5 years over the E-M1ii when no other high performance sensor manufacturer has achieved any?

Im absolutely sure improvements will come, but more time for development seems to be required just now.
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  #21  
Old 7th February 2019
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Re: My latest foray into FF mirrorless - and why I'm sticking with m43

Quote:
Originally Posted by drmarkf View Post
I wonder if some of the explanation is that were in a pause period in sensor development.

If you look on, say, Photons to Photos at the dynamic range and signal-to-noise ratio performance of sensors released over the past 2-3 years, there has been little improvement.

In fact, X-T2 to X-T3, A7R to A7RII to A7RIII, and D800 to D810 to D850 show no significant improvement whatsoever. Check the graphs at http://photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm

Yes there were improvements between say the 5D3 and 5D4, at and near base ISO, but Canon dynamic range and noise performance have always been a bit rubbish, comparatively.

So why should we expect an improvement over the past 2.5 years over the E-M1ii when no other high performance sensor manufacturer has achieved any?

Im absolutely sure improvements will come, but more time for development seems to be required just now.

There's also a possibility that when sensor technology improves, Sony will see that their cameras get it before Olympus. We'll just have to be patient, it's not like our cameras have suddenly become incapable overnight!
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  #22  
Old 7th February 2019
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Re: My latest foray into FF mirrorless - and why I'm sticking with m43

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Originally Posted by Zuiko View Post
it's not like our cameras have suddenly become incapable overnight!
Well said John
Interestingly in the recent Digital Camera review the EM1X had better dynamic range than the Canon1DmkII, the Nikon D5 and the Panosonic GH5 pretty much all the way up to 25600 iso. They have obviously done something to it.
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  #23  
Old 9th February 2019
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Re: My latest foray into FF mirrorless - and why I'm sticking with m43

I am sticking with my EM-1 (1) for most things but the A7R FF is my choice for UWA (including some Laowas). I might even get an A7RII when the price is right, for the IS.

Two-system operation (including two-system flash) is not ideal but, e.g. when WA depth in high magnification macro is important, sometimes it is worth the trouble.

Harold
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Old 9th February 2019
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Re: My latest foray into FF mirrorless - and why I'm sticking with m43

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Originally Posted by Harold Gough View Post
I am sticking with my EM-1 (1) for most things but the A7R FF is my choice for UWA (including some Laowas). I might even get an A7RII when the price is right, for the IS.

Two-system operation (including two-system flash) is not ideal but, e.g. when WA depth in high magnification macro is important, sometimes it is worth the trouble.

Harold
I can understand the appeal of the A7R (i, ii or iii), but I've found that running two systems is bad for my indecisiveness!
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  #25  
Old 9th February 2019
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Re: My latest foray into FF mirrorless - and why I'm sticking with m43

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I can understand the appeal of the A7R (i, ii or iii), but I've found that running two systems is bad for my indecisiveness!
I used to run two with film: OM4 and X-Pan.

Harold
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Old 9th February 2019
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Re: My latest foray into FF mirrorless - and why I'm sticking with m43

Agree with Paul. I have a illogical attachment to just one gadget/camera. If I had two systems, it would be like having two wives (perish the thought).

I am best sticking to one system, enjoying the benefits and ignoring the shortcomings,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
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  #27  
Old 9th February 2019
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Re: My latest foray into FF mirrorless - and why I'm sticking with m43

I have macro lenses (one a good telephoto) which I can use on either camera, thus not having to miss out on opportunities.

Harold
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Old 9th February 2019
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Re: My latest foray into FF mirrorless - and why I'm sticking with m43

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I used to run two with film: OM4 and X-Pan.

Harold
Last autumn I came within a gnats whisker of buying an X-Pan.

Back in the day I lusted after one, and I spotted that an acquaintance on another forum was selling his in immaculate condition, with various nice extras. 1700 as I recall.

Theyre fairly practical in the digital age, especially in that you can load 35mm cassettes and processing drums in a dark-bag and then scan the film yourself.
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  #29  
Old 10th February 2019
Harold Gough Harold Gough is offline
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Re: My latest foray into FF mirrorless - and why I'm sticking with m43

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Last autumn I came within a gnat’s whisker of buying an X-Pan.

Back in the day I lusted after one, and I spotted that an acquaintance on another forum was selling his in immaculate condition, with various nice extras. 1700 as I recall.

They’re fairly practical in the digital age, especially in that you can load 35mm cassettes and processing drums in a dark-bag and then scan the film yourself.
Mark,

That was a very good price.

I have all the lenses and have had good results (several years ago) from the 90mm on m4/3. I have an adapter for Sony E, with the 30mm mainly in mind. I have only used it in its rangefinder role. I found the format very good for all kinds of subjects, not just for distant landscapes.

The dream option is for a digital body X-Pan to emerge. Some bodies were converted to stereo, with twin lenses, after the EU anti-mercury regulations stopped X-pan production.

Harold
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  #30  
Old 10th February 2019
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Re: My latest foray into FF mirrorless - and why I'm sticking with m43

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Originally Posted by Harold Gough View Post
Mark,

That was a very good price.

I have all the lenses and have had good results (several years ago) from the 90mm on m4/3. I have an adapter for Sony E, with the 30mm mainly in mind. I have only used it in its rangefinder role. I found the format very good for all kinds of subjects, not just for distant landscapes.

The dream option is for a digital body X-Pan to emerge. Some bodies were converted to stereo, with twin lenses, after the EU anti-mercury regulations stopped X-pan production.

Harold
Yes, I also think the format encourages a lot of creativity.
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