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Looking for improvement This is the e-group critique board. If you post a picture here it will be assumed that you are looking for comprehensive technical feedback - both good and bad, but always respectful. Only post pictures here if you can deal with potentially negative constructive criticism. Anyone is qualified to comment and post feedback, and everyone is encouraged to do so. NB: "Looking for Improvement" is the place to post any pictures you would like advice on improving, no matter how bad you might think they are.

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Old 18th September 2017
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Cambridge with the 7-14mm PRO

This sort of thing is why I wanted the 7-14mm. It is quite dark so the ISO is up to 3200 as I'm shooting handheld (I don't normally carry a tripod) so excuse any noise although I don't think it is too bad.

This was a single shot so as expected the glass windows (7 of them) needed pulling back. This was done by processing in adobe raw (elements 12) and then masking onto the jpeg from OV3. I also lightened the right hand pews of the church to match the left and gave them and the centre aisle a nice glow. I reduced the saturation in the stonework to get rid of the slight creamy yellow texture as I like my stone to look like stone. I also toned down the very bright left hand side a bit and put back the original wall plaques with another mask. The ceiling was also given a bit of lift to expose what detail there was.

Here is the result.



And the original



Have I missed anything?
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Old 18th September 2017
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Re: Cambridge with the 7-14mm PRO

Viewed on my iPad, I can easily adjust the size of the image to effectively crop the sides.

For me everything beyond the columns on the left and right distracts from the main isle. Used as the stoppers the columns constrain the main subject and provide it with a greater strength.

I'd definitely clone those lights/speakers out.

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Old 18th September 2017
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Re: Cambridge with the 7-14mm PRO

I agree with Graham on the left/right cropping.

As for the PP - very masterfully done. A fantastic example of why shooting raw is always better than JPEG!
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Old 19th September 2017
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Re: Cambridge with the 7-14mm PRO

Nicely done.

The glass panels in the windows on the left are now a flat grey due to the exposure being reduced. You have revealed the detail in their frames however.

Did you consider taking three or more shots at different exposures and then HDR processing the result. You would need a tripod to do it properly though it could be done hand held.
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Old 19th September 2017
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Re: Cambridge with the 7-14mm PRO

TBH, I've never found that a multiple shot HDR merge works that well. Maybe I've not mastered the technique, but I generally find a single-shot raw, carefully processed, can give a much more natural result. This post which I did earlier this year shows an example I made with the Panasonic 7-14 on the E-M1ii:

http://e-group.uk.net/forum/showthread.php?t=45277
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Old 19th September 2017
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Re: Cambridge with the 7-14mm PRO

Hi I personally would have masked out the windows as they are/ look correctly exposed then adjust the shadows etc as per second and yes clone out the speakers, then I think it would be correctly exposed all over.
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Old 19th September 2017
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Re: Cambridge with the 7-14mm PRO

Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham_of_Rainham View Post
...For me everything beyond the columns on the left and right distracts from the main isle. Used as the stoppers the columns constrain the main subject and provide it with a greater strength...
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdk42 View Post
I agree with Graham on the left/right cropping
I hadn't considered this; the square (or nearly square) format that would result does not come naturally to me. This would however crop out that terrible window on the left where the strong light distorts the stone scrollwork above the mullions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wornish View Post
The glass panels in the windows on the left are now a flat grey due to the exposure being reduced. You have revealed the detail in their frames however...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daveart View Post
Hi I personally would have masked out the windows as they are/ look correctly exposed then adjust the shadows etc as per second ....
I wasn't happy with the flat grey result. Perhaps in this case something closer to the original would have been better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wornish View Post
Did you consider taking three or more shots at different exposures and then HDR processing the result. You would need a tripod to do it properly though it could be done hand held.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdk42 View Post
TBH, I've never found that a multiple shot HDR merge works that well. Maybe I've not mastered the technique, but I generally find a single-shot raw, carefully processed, can give a much more natural result. ...
The freedom of working without a tripod does have its disadvantages sometimes. I don't think I would have aligned two handheld shots even on fast sequential.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daveart View Post
...and yes clone out the speakers, then I think it would be correctly exposed all over.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham_of_Rainham View Post
...I'd definitely clone those lights/speakers out...
Ummm, they are annoying. My best cloning is done in PaintShop; I'll have to investigate other options.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pdk42 View Post
As for the PP - very masterfully done. A fantastic example of why shooting raw is always better than JPEG!
Quote:
Originally Posted by wornish View Post
Nicely done...
Thanks Guys.
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Old 19th September 2017
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Re: Cambridge with the 7-14mm PRO

Which church is that? I don't recognise it!
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Old 19th September 2017
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Re: Cambridge with the 7-14mm PRO

Quote:
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Which church is that? I don't recognise it!
St Edward King and Martyr located on Peas Hill.

Whilst we were in Cambridge we went to Michaelhouse Cafe within St Michael's Church. Well worth popping in for a nice cup of tea.
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Old 20th September 2017
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Re: Cambridge with the 7-14mm PRO

I agree with suggestions that a square format would improve the overall composition with L & R pillars forming a frame. It might have been worth moving in a few steps to include slightly less floor in the f/ground. I feel final image is a little flat perhaps an increase in Vibrance during processing would have helped
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Old 20th September 2017
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Re: Cambridge with the 7-14mm PRO

I agree that areas to L & R of pillars would be better removed - possibly moving in closer would have helped which would have lost some of the roof down to the level of the lights. Generally the overall result of processing is pleasing but I would have worked on the central window to bring back more colour detail.
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Old 21st September 2017
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Re: Cambridge with the 7-14mm PRO

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I agree with suggestions that a square format would improve the overall composition...
Another call for the sqaure format. 'Spose I'll have to give it a go.

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Originally Posted by Mick_weed View Post
... I feel final image is a little flat perhaps an increase in Vibrance during processing would have helped
I'm more than happy to try increasing the vibrance.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick_weed View Post
...Generally the overall result of processing is pleasing but I would have worked on the central window to bring back more colour detail.
Thanks. I thought I had done my best with the windows but I'll take another look.
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Old 27th September 2017
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Re: Cambridge with the 7-14mm PRO

I would crop at the nearest pillars, so that you get rid of the distracting side windows, and a lop some off the bottom to retain the format. Will look rather better, methinks.
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Old 28th September 2017
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Re: Cambridge with the 7-14mm PRO

OK, here is the re-edited photo. I could not manage to do anything more with the big stained glass window but I did manage to improve the left side window. I have also cloned out the lights and speakers.




For those that preferred the squarer format framed by the pillars and with Keiths idea of lopping of some of the bottom to bring you more into the picture... (I have to agree that this does work).



Any better? Thanks for your help.
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Old 28th September 2017
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Re: Cambridge with the 7-14mm PRO

I think that works much better now! You've eliminated the distracting windows at the sides, and the pews take your eyes to the focal area of the big colored window over the altar. I'd be inclined to bring that window up a shade, both vibrance and brightness/contrast, and take the right hand window down a shade. You could, if you felt cheeky (I've seen this done), add 'flames' to the candles at the sides of the altar!

Much better, well done. Just because we can easily get very wide angle shots these days doesn't mean we get the best result doing so! :-)
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