Olympus UK E-System User Group
Olympus UK E-System User Group

Join our unique resource for Olympus Four Thirds E-System DSLR and Pen and OM-D Micro Four Thirds photographers. Show your images via our free e-group photo gallery. Please read the e-group.uk.net forum terms and conditions before posting for the first time. Above all, welcome!


Go Back   Olympus UK E-System User Group > Cameras, lenses and system accessories > Camera conference > Micro Four Thirds > Olympus OM-D E-M1

Olympus OM-D E-M1 The first Micro Four Thirds camera that offers phase detect focusing so you can use Four Thirds DSLR lenses normally as well a Micro Four Thirds lenses.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11th December 2013
birdboy birdboy is online now
Full member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Essex
Posts: 1,376
Thanks: 349
Thanked 237 Times in 200 Posts
Likes: 182
Liked 331 Times in 159 Posts
EVF settings

I noticed that a number of folk have been setting the Eye Auto switch to off and I do not understand why you would want to use this setting for general picture taking. For one the drain on the battery must be significant. But the more puzzling issue is that of noise generated by the sensor being exposed for long periods.

With Eye Auto switch off it means that the sensor is constantly switched on and displaying the view. It seems that it goes off after 60 secs. With EVF Auto switch ON the display goes off straight away when your eye is away from the EVF, that must conserve power.

I am having trouble understanding what this does to the picture quality as it must be akin to having the LCD on and using Live View or taking an upto a 60sec exposure. I was always led to understand that it is best to keep the LV to short periods otherwise the sensor photosites will heat up giving noise. Long exposure time, Olympus states, requires Noise Reduction turned on so that a dark frame is produced and then subtracted from the picture frame to remove hot pixels generated by the long exposure.

It seems that an 8 sec exposure benefits from a NR process. So if you use LV or the EVF Auto switch off the sensor will have been exposed for up to 60sec, a time which will show noise. Even if the shutter speed is 1/500 sec the sensor will still have suffered from the noise generated because the LCD or EVF has had the photosites switched on.

This is a different technology camera than the OVF cameras it replaced and is it a mistake to use the EVF Auto switch off (like an OVF).

I may be missing something and I am hoping that those with more knowledge than me on this camera can correct my logic.
__________________
John

OM-D E-M1, 12-40 f2.8 Pro, Tamron 14-150mm f5.8, E5, E3, Zuiko 50-200mm SWD, Zuiko 12-60mm SWD, Zuiko ED 70-300mm f5.6, 50mmf2, Zuiko ED 9-18mm f5.6, Sigma 50-500mm f6.3, EC14, EC20, RM-1, VA-1
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11th December 2013
StephenL's Avatar
StephenL StephenL is offline
Senior Pixelmonger
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Yorkshire Dales
Posts: 9,863
Thanks: 984
Thanked 1,126 Times in 921 Posts
Likes: 658
Liked 755 Times in 499 Posts
Re: EVF settings

I think it's times like this when it's best to be ignorant about what's going on inside the camera and just enjoy it, unless problems are apparent in the picture.
__________________
Stephen

A camera takes a picture. A photographer makes a picture

Fuji X system, + Leica and Bronica film

My Flickr site
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to StephenL For This Useful Post:
brian1208 (11th December 2013), Iansky (12th December 2013), Wee man (11th December 2013)
The Following User Liked This Post:
brian1208 (11th December 2013)
  #3  
Old 11th December 2013
birdboy birdboy is online now
Full member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Essex
Posts: 1,376
Thanks: 349
Thanked 237 Times in 200 Posts
Likes: 182
Liked 331 Times in 159 Posts
Re: EVF settings

Quote:
Originally Posted by StephenL View Post
I think it's times like this when it's best to be ignorant about what's going on inside the camera and just enjoy it, unless problems are apparent in the picture.
My Problem is that long exposures is something I like to do and I have already been bitten by one experience of noise in the form of black dots that I want to understand this new technology so as not to get disappointing results.

I also think we need to understand the limitation and benefits of EVF versus OVF.
__________________
John

OM-D E-M1, 12-40 f2.8 Pro, Tamron 14-150mm f5.8, E5, E3, Zuiko 50-200mm SWD, Zuiko 12-60mm SWD, Zuiko ED 70-300mm f5.6, 50mmf2, Zuiko ED 9-18mm f5.6, Sigma 50-500mm f6.3, EC14, EC20, RM-1, VA-1
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11th December 2013
photo_owl photo_owl is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Kent
Posts: 1,423
Thanks: 37
Thanked 129 Times in 113 Posts
Likes: 55
Liked 53 Times in 42 Posts
Re: EVF settings

by this logic when shooting for a long time with the camera to the eye you would be cooking the sensor.......

but you aren't, don't, so the logic is flawed.

there are many more pixels on the sensor than being shown on the EVF; whether they are cycled in use, the reduced number of active sites reduces the heating, or what technology is used I'm not sure but in general the provision of LV and EVF isn't the same as the use of the sensor for image capture.

cumulative actual exposure time is another thing and, if I had the option, I would look to avoid long series of medium length exposures as much as individual long ones - but that's the same with any camera.
__________________
E, Pen and OM-D bodies
43 m43 and legacy glass
loads of flashes and accessories from all the systems
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11th December 2013
birdboy birdboy is online now
Full member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Essex
Posts: 1,376
Thanks: 349
Thanked 237 Times in 200 Posts
Likes: 182
Liked 331 Times in 159 Posts
Re: EVF settings

Quote:
Originally Posted by photo_owl View Post
by this logic when shooting for a long time with the camera to the eye you would be cooking the sensor.......

but you aren't, don't, so the logic is flawed.

there are many more pixels on the sensor than being shown on the EVF; whether they are cycled in use, the reduced number of active sites reduces the heating, or what technology is used I'm not sure but in general the provision of LV and EVF isn't the same as the use of the sensor for image capture.

cumulative actual exposure time is another thing and, if I had the option, I would look to avoid long series of medium length exposures as much as individual long ones - but that's the same with any camera.
Yes I do agree that there appears to be something wrong with my logic as some results show that you do not get the noise one would expect if all the photosites were switched on. Your thinking that the photosites are cycled or something similar would make sense. But some of the photosites must be turned on for some of the time to give the picture in the viewfinder and if you are using the EVF for prolonged periods of time there must be some less desirable effect on the sensor. So it would make sense to use the viewfinder as short as possible. Leaving the EVF Auto switch OFF does not seem to me to be a good thing even under your logic.

Compare that with an OVF using only the viewfinder the only exposure of the sensor is that of the shutter being opened, surely that must mean less noise.
__________________
John

OM-D E-M1, 12-40 f2.8 Pro, Tamron 14-150mm f5.8, E5, E3, Zuiko 50-200mm SWD, Zuiko 12-60mm SWD, Zuiko ED 70-300mm f5.6, 50mmf2, Zuiko ED 9-18mm f5.6, Sigma 50-500mm f6.3, EC14, EC20, RM-1, VA-1
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11th December 2013
David Morison's Avatar
David Morison David Morison is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Fulbeck, Lincolnshire
Posts: 3,507
Thanks: 71
Thanked 588 Times in 472 Posts
Likes: 48
Liked 298 Times in 175 Posts
Re: EVF settings

My main reason is that there is a slight delay in the firing up of the EVF when raising the camera to the eye with the Auto switch on. This can be a crucial delay when attempting to shoot BIFs, with the switch off the image is already there. However, aware of the battery drain problem and in this case sensor noise I always keep the camera switched off -
It can be switched on while raising to the eye thus no delay. I never understand why folks keep a camera such as the OMD switched on anyhow as the start-up time is minimal.

David
__________________
PBase Galleries:-http://www.pbase.com/davidmorisonimages
Reply With Quote
The Following User Liked This Post:
brian1208 (11th December 2013)
  #7  
Old 11th December 2013
birdboy birdboy is online now
Full member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Essex
Posts: 1,376
Thanks: 349
Thanked 237 Times in 200 Posts
Likes: 182
Liked 331 Times in 159 Posts
Re: EVF settings

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Morison View Post
My main reason is that there is a slight delay in the firing up of the EVF when raising the camera to the eye with the Auto switch on. This can be a crucial delay when attempting to shoot BIFs, with the switch off the image is already there. However, aware of the battery drain problem and in this case sensor noise I always keep the camera switched off -
It can be switched on while raising to the eye thus no delay. I never understand why folks keep a camera such as the OMD switched on anyhow as the start-up time is minimal.

David
Now using it this way I can understand to some extent. With my E5 I tend to leave it on when walking about, the battery usage could last me more than a day. With the EM1 I also tend to switch it off a lot more than I did with my E5 or E3.

I wonder if your turning the camera off (power cycling) is one of the reasons that you have not experienced any lockups?
__________________
John

OM-D E-M1, 12-40 f2.8 Pro, Tamron 14-150mm f5.8, E5, E3, Zuiko 50-200mm SWD, Zuiko 12-60mm SWD, Zuiko ED 70-300mm f5.6, 50mmf2, Zuiko ED 9-18mm f5.6, Sigma 50-500mm f6.3, EC14, EC20, RM-1, VA-1
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11th December 2013
brian1208 brian1208 is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Dorset
Posts: 4,561
Thanks: 825
Thanked 928 Times in 741 Posts
Likes: 1,962
Liked 1,327 Times in 625 Posts
Re: EVF settings

Having the EVF on (which is my way of shooting) doesn't appear to reduce my battery life, when shooting sequentially, such as with motorcycle racing, BIF work etc I can regularly get in the order of 1000 +/- shots (same as with the EM-5, set in the same way)

As to the Exposure question, I suspect the reason you don't see noise as if the sites were active for all that time is that (I'm guessing) the camera switches off the sensor, then switches on as you press the shutter button

Quote:
think it's times like this when it's best to be ignorant about what's going on inside the camera and just enjoy it, unless problems are apparent in the picture
I'm with Stephen on this, I have little desire to understand what happens under the hood but great interest in how to use the camera to get the results I want (by reading the manual and experimenting until the whole process becomes instinctive.)

I find it very confusing when someone asks "why do you do it that way" and expects an answer different from "That's what I found works for me"
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11th December 2013
birdboy birdboy is online now
Full member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Essex
Posts: 1,376
Thanks: 349
Thanked 237 Times in 200 Posts
Likes: 182
Liked 331 Times in 159 Posts
Re: EVF settings

Quote:
Originally Posted by brian1208 View Post
Having the EVF on (which is my way of shooting) doesn't appear to reduce my battery life, when shooting sequentially, such as with motorcycle racing, BIF work etc I can regularly get in the order of 1000 +/- shots (same as with the EM-5, set in the same way)

As to the Exposure question, I suspect the reason you don't see noise as if the sites were active for all that time is that (I'm guessing) the camera switches off the sensor, then switches on as you press the shutter button



I'm with Stephen on this, I have little desire to understand what happens under the hood but great interest in how to use the camera to get the results I want (by reading the manual and experimenting until the whole process becomes instinctive.)

I find it very confusing when someone asks "why do you do it that way" and expects an answer different from "That's what I found works for me"
I am sorry you feel I am criticising your way of shooting but that is not the case. I have learned a lot from folk on this forum because they do things different than the way I was working. Your other threads suggest to me that you are a very detailed and meticulous person who does want to know want is going on under the bonnet.

I raised this question because as Stephen qualified "unless problems are apparent in the picture" and I have had those problems as I know others have also had with long exposures. When you have good light and are able to shoot at fast shutter speeds I would not expect obvious noise. It starts to rear its ugly head when you are trying to take long exposures with poor light.

This is not an academic question but one I want to understand and how to get the best out of the EM1 for night stars, light trails etc.

I also felt that it may help others on this forum understand the effect certain settings have on picture quality under poor light conditions.

I would hope you could at least accept that when you are using an EVF camera their must be some noise generated if that EVF is on for long periods of time. Whether it is noticeable will depend on how long you have your EVF on, your exposure settings and the available light.
__________________
John

OM-D E-M1, 12-40 f2.8 Pro, Tamron 14-150mm f5.8, E5, E3, Zuiko 50-200mm SWD, Zuiko 12-60mm SWD, Zuiko ED 70-300mm f5.6, 50mmf2, Zuiko ED 9-18mm f5.6, Sigma 50-500mm f6.3, EC14, EC20, RM-1, VA-1
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11th December 2013
brian1208 brian1208 is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Dorset
Posts: 4,561
Thanks: 825
Thanked 928 Times in 741 Posts
Likes: 1,962
Liked 1,327 Times in 625 Posts
Re: EVF settings

Quote:
am sorry you feel I am criticising your way of shooting but that is not the case. I have learned a lot from folk on this forum because they do things different than the way I was working. Your other threads suggest to me that you are a very detailed and meticulous person who does want to know want is going on under the bonnet.
Not at all, no worries about that at all, it was a genuine and non-specific comment about the way I work and its the same whether people ask me about how I make my prints, set my camera etc. Its a mental state known in the training world (my last 10 years of my career was Training Manager for my company ) as "unconscious competence" , you don't think about how you do something, even though you may do it to a very high level and it is difficult to reproduce the process mentally when you try to analyse it

As in my comments above about my EVF setting, I totally forgot to mention that the EVF is set to Sleep after 1 minute and Auto Power Down after an hour.

My training as a scientist makes me naturally inquisitive about how things work but I'm too old and consumed by my passion for photography to worry about the specifics of how my tools work, as I said, its more about, how to get them best to help me achieve what I want

So, I hope I have put your mind to rest, I enjoy honest debate and enquiry (else I wouldn't be here )
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to brian1208 For This Useful Post:
birdboy (11th December 2013)
  #11  
Old 12th December 2013
Ralph Harwood's Avatar
Ralph Harwood Ralph Harwood is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Wirral
Posts: 1,822
Thanks: 213
Thanked 294 Times in 274 Posts
Likes: 765
Liked 412 Times in 254 Posts
Re: EVF settings

Hi there Brian and birdboy!

I haven't got an E-M1, but I have noticed that using the LiveView function on my E-30 before taking a 25second exposure generates considerable noise even at iso 200 compared with the same exposure length taken with the OVF used to frame the shot. My reasoning for this was that the LiveView is having to ramp up the sensor to it's maximum to give a usable image to view (and focus from) which causes it to warm up considerably, and it doesn't have time to cool down after even though during the long exposure it is running at a low iso.

Could the issues be due to the low light levels you are experiencing when setting the camera up for the long exposure shots? I agree that there isn't much you can do if you are trying to take star trails except use the sensor (unless you buy a vf-1 optical viewfinder to put on your flash mount!) but perhaps if you are taking long exposures with a filter you could set the shot up first and then add the filter after?

Cheers,

Ralph.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 12th December 2013
birdboy birdboy is online now
Full member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Essex
Posts: 1,376
Thanks: 349
Thanked 237 Times in 200 Posts
Likes: 182
Liked 331 Times in 159 Posts
Re: EVF settings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph Harwood View Post
Hi there Brian and birdboy!

I haven't got an E-M1, but I have noticed that using the LiveView function on my E-30 before taking a 25second exposure generates considerable noise even at iso 200 compared with the same exposure length taken with the OVF used to frame the shot. My reasoning for this was that the LiveView is having to ramp up the sensor to it's maximum to give a usable image to view (and focus from) which causes it to warm up considerably, and it doesn't have time to cool down after even though during the long exposure it is running at a low iso.

Could the issues be due to the low light levels you are experiencing when setting the camera up for the long exposure shots? I agree that there isn't much you can do if you are trying to take star trails except use the sensor (unless you buy a vf-1 optical viewfinder to put on your flash mount!) but perhaps if you are taking long exposures with a filter you could set the shot up first and then add the filter after?

Cheers,

Ralph.
Thanks Ralph I have heard it said that some folk have reported that these noise type problems go away after use with the EM1. It could be feasible that with a new camera the time it takes to set up compose, frame and take a picture takes longer because it is different. As you get more use to where the settings are then the time it takes to take a picture is shorter and with an EVF camera that may well make a difference.

For night shots I think I can see a difference if having set up the shot either with the EVF or LV that I then turn off LV (with Eye Auto switch ON) wait about 30 secs before taking the shot.

Star Trails are proving difficult because Olympus states that to get rid of the hot pixel noise you must have NR ON and causes gaps in the trail. I have read elsewhere that with the EM5 you did not need NR ON for stair trails. The EVF or LV setup is not really an issue for this type of shot because you can set the time lapse to start latter on and the sensor will be constantly being exposed anyway.

For daylight where I want to show smooth water I do not use ND filters and have taken to take time lapse pictures (1 sec interval and between 10-20 frames) and blend them in LREnfuse.
__________________
John

OM-D E-M1, 12-40 f2.8 Pro, Tamron 14-150mm f5.8, E5, E3, Zuiko 50-200mm SWD, Zuiko 12-60mm SWD, Zuiko ED 70-300mm f5.6, 50mmf2, Zuiko ED 9-18mm f5.6, Sigma 50-500mm f6.3, EC14, EC20, RM-1, VA-1
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
RAW settings brianvickers Olympus OM-D E-M5 1 5th May 2012 11:33 PM
HELP! E1 Settings Ianf Olympus E-1 23 29th October 2011 08:52 PM
ISO settings abacus180 Olympus E-500 6 28th January 2011 08:31 PM
E30 settings help please. Wee man Olympus E-30 9 17th June 2010 05:50 PM
Out the box settings Rod Souter Olympus E-510 26 27th November 2007 08:45 PM


All times are GMT. The time now is 07:06 PM.


The Write Technology Ltd, 2007-2019, All rights reservedAd Management plugin by RedTyger