Olympus UK E-System User Group
Olympus UK E-System User Group

Join our unique resource for Olympus Four Thirds E-System DSLR and Pen and OM-D Micro Four Thirds photographers. Show your images via our free e-group photo gallery. Please read the e-group.uk.net forum terms and conditions before posting for the first time. Above all, welcome!


Go Back   Olympus UK E-System User Group > Cameras, lenses and system accessories > Camera conference > Micro Four Thirds > Olympus OM-D E-M1

Olympus OM-D E-M1 The first Micro Four Thirds camera that offers phase detect focusing so you can use Four Thirds DSLR lenses normally as well a Micro Four Thirds lenses.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #61  
Old 12th October 2013
pdk42's Avatar
pdk42 pdk42 is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Leamington Spa
Posts: 5,710
Thanks: 370
Thanked 1,257 Times in 942 Posts
Likes: 150
Liked 6,007 Times in 1,955 Posts
Re: Birds in Flight Bif EM-5 and EM-1

I guess we'll only know the answer to whether user contrast/colour settings can improve autofocus by talking to someone who understands the camera's hardware and software in some detail. At a simplistic level it would seem to me that some sort of high level processing chain like the following must be happening (many times a second):

- Read data from sensor
- Run de-mosaic
- Apply tone curves and other image processing (e.g. Sharpening)
- Render image on EVF (incl adding text overlays and doing display only changes such as display colour temperature)

JPEG conversion would I think only happen when the shutter is pressed (well, at least, it doesn't need to be done before).

Where AF processing fits in this chain is speculation since I don't see any reason in principle why it couldn't happen after any of the steps. This includes working off the raw data since if contrast detect is all we're doing then we don't need to do the demosaicing. Equally, it could be done after the application of tone curves and if so, then changes to the contrast settings would influence its behaviour.

It would be nice to do some controlled tests, but I suspect it'll be a difficult thing to do properly.
__________________
Paul
E-M1ii, Pen-F and too many lenses
flickr
Portfolio Site
Instagram
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to pdk42 For This Useful Post:
PeterBirder (12th October 2013)
  #62  
Old 12th October 2013
raichea raichea is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 694
Thanks: 89
Thanked 115 Times in 95 Posts
Likes: 113
Liked 121 Times in 80 Posts
Re: Birds in Flight Bif EM-5 and EM-1

Quote:
Originally Posted by pdk42 View Post
Where AF processing fits in this chain is speculation since I don't see any reason in principle why it couldn't happen after any of the steps. This includes working off the raw data since if contrast detect is all we're doing then we don't need to do the demosaicing.
This was my point in my earlier post... if I were the engineer designing this thing, I'd want to get the focus data as soon as possible to give the best possible performance.

Steve
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 12th October 2013
Zuiko's Avatar
Zuiko Zuiko is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Dunmow, Essex
Posts: 22,191
Thanks: 1,991
Thanked 3,175 Times in 2,480 Posts
Likes: 3,448
Liked 4,506 Times in 2,143 Posts
Re: Birds in Flight Bif EM-5 and EM-1

Quote:
Originally Posted by raichea View Post
This was my point in my earlier post... if I were the engineer designing this thing, I'd want to get the focus data as soon as possible to give the best possible performance.

Steve
The way I look at it is that all the information, including user adjustments, is continuously being streamed from the sensor to the EVF. The process doesn't start with a press of whichever button is being used to engage focus, it is already happening at many times a second anyway.
__________________
John

"A hundredth of a second here, a hundredth of a second there even if you put them end to end, they still only add up to one, two, perhaps three seconds, snatched from eternity." ~ Robert Doisneau
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Zuiko For This Useful Post:
PeterBirder (12th October 2013)
  #64  
Old 12th October 2013
raichea raichea is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 694
Thanks: 89
Thanked 115 Times in 95 Posts
Likes: 113
Liked 121 Times in 80 Posts
Re: Birds in Flight Bif EM-5 and EM-1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuiko View Post
The way I look at it is that all the information, including user adjustments, is continuously being streamed from the sensor to the EVF. The process doesn't start with a press of whichever button is being used to engage focus, it is already happening at many times a second anyway.
True... but getting data later will still cause inaccuracies if things are changing... a bit like not knowing whether the sun has exploded for 8 minutes...
Reply With Quote
The Following User Liked This Post:
Zuiko (12th October 2013)
  #65  
Old 12th October 2013
birdboy birdboy is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Essex
Posts: 1,386
Thanks: 349
Thanked 239 Times in 201 Posts
Likes: 182
Liked 337 Times in 162 Posts
Re: Birds in Flight Bif EM-5 and EM-1

Without trying to be in any way disrespectful to these explanations do people know or they are guessing based upon what they would do having some detailed knowledge of the inner workings of a camera.

I would love to know in detail how the Oly designers implemented their features in this camera as in any other but so would the competition. We are not going to find out all you can do is experiment and judge for yourself by the results. I do not know enough about the way in which a camera takes light from a lens and converts it into a picture. I did have experience of converting analogue values to digital values in process control. If you give that task to 10 designers the chances are you will get 10 different ways of doing it.

I for one would rather folk reported upon the results rather than any guessing how that result was obtained. Sorry if that offends its not my intention but this forum is so useful I would not like to se it degenerate to a series of misinformation on the inner workings of a camera..
__________________
John

OM-D E-M1, 12-40 f2.8 Pro, Tamron 14-150mm f5.8, E5, E3, Zuiko 50-200mm SWD, Zuiko 12-60mm SWD, Zuiko ED 70-300mm f5.6, 50mmf2, Zuiko ED 9-18mm f5.6, Sigma 50-500mm f6.3, EC14, EC20, RM-1, VA-1
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to birdboy For This Useful Post:
PeterBirder (12th October 2013), Zuiko (12th October 2013)
The Following Users Liked This Post:
dogsbody (16th October 2013), StephenL (12th October 2013)
  #66  
Old 12th October 2013
brian1208 brian1208 is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Dorset
Posts: 4,561
Thanks: 825
Thanked 928 Times in 741 Posts
Likes: 1,962
Liked 1,327 Times in 625 Posts
Re: Birds in Flight Bif EM-5 and EM-1

Quite agree with you "birdboy" - data rule - interpretation can wait

So, let's share what we get (and not get hung up on hypothetical argument! )

More importantly, if we share details of How we do something then others are able to try it for themselves and report back whether they are able to reproduce the observations - the "Scientific Method"
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to brian1208 For This Useful Post:
PeterBirder (12th October 2013), Zuiko (12th October 2013)
  #67  
Old 12th October 2013
PeterBirder's Avatar
PeterBirder PeterBirder is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: BRAINTREE ESSEX
Posts: 5,950
Thanks: 1,760
Thanked 1,024 Times in 854 Posts
Likes: 1,922
Liked 798 Times in 467 Posts
Re: Birds in Flight Bif EM-5 and EM-1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chevvyf1 View Post

Matt Hope told me some settings to try, which he and Bryce Bradfield used and it enhanced their images captured of aircraft and Birds in Flight ! I hold both these chaps in the same "group" as yourself and the man from Bug - you all know a lot more than I now KNOW - or ever want too KNOW, about the technical design and workings of ??? !

BUT it works
You are quite right Chevvy , it works.

Having seen Matt's photos and as an electronics engineer thought about it I am satisfied that it is quite reasonable that it should work.

Regards.
__________________
Peter

she looked at me and said "It's official. I hate your camera. It's just so amazing and perfect I want one!"

E-M10 MK II, E-M5, E-PL1, E-PM2, mZ 12-50, mZ 14-42mm EZ, mZ 17mm f 1.8, mZ 25mm f1.8, mZ 45mm f1.8, mZ 75-300mm II.
OM1n, OM 50mm f1.8.
Oly Viewer3, Dxo Pro 11. FastStone.
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 12th October 2013
Zuiko's Avatar
Zuiko Zuiko is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Dunmow, Essex
Posts: 22,191
Thanks: 1,991
Thanked 3,175 Times in 2,480 Posts
Likes: 3,448
Liked 4,506 Times in 2,143 Posts
Re: Birds in Flight Bif EM-5 and EM-1

Quote:
Originally Posted by birdboy View Post
Without trying to be in any way disrespectful to these explanations do people know or they are guessing based upon what they would do having some detailed knowledge of the inner workings of a camera.

I would love to know in detail how the Oly designers implemented their features in this camera as in any other but so would the competition. We are not going to find out all you can do is experiment and judge for yourself by the results. I do not know enough about the way in which a camera takes light from a lens and converts it into a picture. I did have experience of converting analogue values to digital values in process control. If you give that task to 10 designers the chances are you will get 10 different ways of doing it.

I for one would rather folk reported upon the results rather than any guessing how that result was obtained. Sorry if that offends its not my intention but this forum is so useful I would not like to se it degenerate to a series of misinformation on the inner workings of a camera..
Oh, in my case there is a lot of assumption based on what I can see in the viewfinder when settings are changed, even when shooting raw only. I don't offer those assumptions as in any way factual, merely plausible. You are right that we are in danger of getting bogged down in theoretical debate and the best way of evaluating the beneficial effect or otherwise of certain settings is to take side by side comparrisons in the field and post them on this forum.
__________________
John

"A hundredth of a second here, a hundredth of a second there even if you put them end to end, they still only add up to one, two, perhaps three seconds, snatched from eternity." ~ Robert Doisneau
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 15th October 2013
brian1208 brian1208 is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Dorset
Posts: 4,561
Thanks: 825
Thanked 928 Times in 741 Posts
Likes: 1,962
Liked 1,327 Times in 625 Posts
Re: Birds in Flight Bif EM-5 and EM-1

Well, I'm part way through processing my images from the Hawk Conservancy today and there is Good News, Not so Good News and Bad News:

I'll get the "Bad" out of the way first, whilst I was experimenting with the Release Lag-time setting on Short (to see if I could cut down on the time it took for the CAF to grab the bird) I had 3 episodes of total lock up (I've reported this and await a reply from Olympus Support) Until I hear back from them to the contrary I would suggest it may be prudent to avoid using the Short setting for Release Shutter Lag with CAF.

What happened was that I heard a clunk and the EVF view jerked to the left (each time). Shortly afterward there was another clunk and the system locked solid, with the last shot showing on the LCD (which I had switched off!).

When I removed the battery there was another clunk and the system freed itself, the noise was similar to that which you here when you switch the system to Short Lag-time release, switch off and the on again

I think I will pause there to post this before moving on to the better news

(oh, by the way, the not so good news was that the light was dreadful and I was shooting ISO 800 - 1600 most of the time so not a lot of pics I'm particularly proud off / would want to share, but there may a few examples
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 15th October 2013
brian1208 brian1208 is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Dorset
Posts: 4,561
Thanks: 825
Thanked 928 Times in 741 Posts
Likes: 1,962
Liked 1,327 Times in 625 Posts
Re: Birds in Flight Bif EM-5 and EM-1

Pt 2 The Good News:

CAF works with BIF shots from Lanner Falcon to Kites and Herons (but struggled a bit with the Peregrine - mind you, this could be because I struggled to keep up with it too )

I was working with the 75-300 and the 40-50 (to try for a bit more aperture latitude to cope with the aforementioned bad light) but the 40-150 was really too short a lot of the time

I tried it with IS in mode 1, Auto and Off and had the impression that Off was probably the most effective (but made acquiring and keeping the bird in the view-finder more difficult)

Normal CAF lock still seems to give the best results in this session and I stuck with 6 frames a second to enable focus following (which seemed to work quite well)

I've just been called away from the keyboard so will end this bit with my summation of how I see the EM-1 for BIF us vs the EM-5 and Canon 7D (scoring out of 10)

7D =10 (as my reference standard)

EM-1 = 8

EM-5 = 3

(subjective ratings based on the ease of acquiring the subject, keeping focus lock on and the final image)

I'll try and give some "Ferinstances" on what worked well, what was less good and what failed + a few pics later (so long as you promise not to criticise the pics, as I said above, there is nothing I am proud of)
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 15th October 2013
Chevvyf1's Avatar
Chevvyf1 Chevvyf1 is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Devon, UK
Posts: 12,269
Thanks: 1,744
Thanked 1,281 Times in 1,112 Posts
Likes: 1,169
Liked 522 Times in 392 Posts
Re: Birds in Flight Bif EM-5 and EM-1

Quote:
Originally Posted by brian1208 View Post
Well, I'm part way through processing my images from the Hawk Conservancy today and there is Good News, Not so Good News and Bad News:

I'll get the "Bad" out of the way first, whilst I was experimenting with the Release Lag-time setting on Short (to see if I could cut down on the time it took for the CAF to grab the bird) I had 3 episodes of total lock up (I've reported this and await a reply from Olympus Support) Until I hear back from them to the contrary I would suggest it may be prudent to avoid using the Short setting for Release Shutter Lag with CAF.

What happened was that I heard a clunk and the EVF view jerked to the left (each time). Shortly afterward there was another clunk and the system locked solid, with the last shot showing on the LCD (which I had switched off!).

When I removed the battery there was another clunk and the system freed itself, the noise was similar to that which you here when you switch the system to Short Lag-time release, switch off and the on again

I think I will pause there to post this before moving on to the better news

(oh, by the way, the not so good news was that the light was dreadful and I was shooting ISO 800 - 1600 most of the time so not a lot of pics I'm particularly proud off / would want to share, but there may a few examples
Brian, I have had EVF "blackouts" (the view went black and a clunk or two ... as if something stuck ) ... and thought it was me at Hayling last week and today at a Trout Farm ... and taking Dragonflys and Swans with a Crow here and there I was using C-AF and Tr and Is off cannot recall all other settings ...

I wonder ... I hear that a few "firmware updates are due soon - mainly for "unable to be completed functionality" ... but in the software industry it was also for "bug fixing"
__________________
.
.
[I].
.
I Lurve Walking in our Glorious Countryside; Photography;
Riding Ducati Motorbikes; Reading & Cooking ! ...


http://www.flickr.com/photos/photomagicf1_chevvy/sets/

the ONE photo album
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 15th October 2013
brian1208 brian1208 is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Dorset
Posts: 4,561
Thanks: 825
Thanked 928 Times in 741 Posts
Likes: 1,962
Liked 1,327 Times in 625 Posts
Re: Birds in Flight Bif EM-5 and EM-1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chevvyf1 View Post
Brian, I have had EVF "blackouts" (the view went black and a clunk or two ... as if something stuck ) ... and thought it was me at Hayling last week and today at a Trout Farm ... and taking Dragonflys and Swans with a Crow here and there

I wonder ... I hear that a few "firmware updates are due soon - mainly for "unable to be completed functionality" ... but in the software industry it was also for "bug fixing"

were you able to clear it by switching off / on or did you require a battery out to sort it?
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 15th October 2013
Chevvyf1's Avatar
Chevvyf1 Chevvyf1 is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Devon, UK
Posts: 12,269
Thanks: 1,744
Thanked 1,281 Times in 1,112 Posts
Likes: 1,169
Liked 522 Times in 392 Posts
Re: Birds in Flight Bif EM-5 and EM-1

Quote:
Originally Posted by brian1208 View Post
were you able to clear it by switching off / on or did you require a battery out to sort it?
switching off and on did not clear it - battery out ! and it was a new fully charged battery about 15 images earlier ! so not a dying battery !
__________________
.
.
[I].
.
I Lurve Walking in our Glorious Countryside; Photography;
Riding Ducati Motorbikes; Reading & Cooking ! ...


http://www.flickr.com/photos/photomagicf1_chevvy/sets/

the ONE photo album
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 15th October 2013
brian1208 brian1208 is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Dorset
Posts: 4,561
Thanks: 825
Thanked 928 Times in 741 Posts
Likes: 1,962
Liked 1,327 Times in 625 Posts
Re: Birds in Flight Bif EM-5 and EM-1

Sounds very similar, what setting were you using?
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 15th October 2013
Chevvyf1's Avatar
Chevvyf1 Chevvyf1 is offline
Full member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Devon, UK
Posts: 12,269
Thanks: 1,744
Thanked 1,281 Times in 1,112 Posts
Likes: 1,169
Liked 522 Times in 392 Posts
Re: Birds in Flight Bif EM-5 and EM-1

Quote:
Originally Posted by brian1208 View Post
Sounds very similar, what setting were you using?
C-AF+Tr ; and IS off ; Contrast +2 ; Art Filter = Vivid ? Manual and ?

I deleted most of the images seeking perfection ... maybe reading your review I am selling this lot and off to Canon now !
__________________
.
.
[I].
.
I Lurve Walking in our Glorious Countryside; Photography;
Riding Ducati Motorbikes; Reading & Cooking ! ...


http://www.flickr.com/photos/photomagicf1_chevvy/sets/

the ONE photo album
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Birds in Flight Seonnaidh Olympus OM-D E-M5 33 21st September 2013 07:31 PM
(War)birds In Flight. Bluegrass Jim Foto Fair 10 18th September 2013 09:31 PM
E-5; 50-200 Birds in flight Chevvyf1 Looking for improvement 23 22nd July 2012 08:44 PM
first few birds in flight with my new kit Kittykat23uk Foto Fair 2 28th August 2010 08:05 PM
Birds in flight with an E-3 benvendetta Camera conference 5 19th March 2009 10:54 AM


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:10 PM.


The Write Technology Ltd, 2007-2019, All rights reservedAd Management plugin by RedTyger