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Software Discuss Olympus Master, Studio and Viewer software applications as well as third party programs like Adobe Photoshop, Lightroom, Apple Aperture, and others.

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  #16  
Old 28th January 2010
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Re: DxO Optics Pro 6

DxO users.. I admit to being intrigued by the package (even though I think I have spent enough on PP software this year having bought CS3).

Currently my workpath is

E620 -> ORF file -> Adobe DNG converter (straight conversion) -> ACR import (white balance, lens CA correction, exposure) -> CS3 + Ptlens (making the picture pretty and geometric corrections)

I regard the CS3 bit as the major creative section, so DNG and ACR are just the route into CS3.

Am I right in thinking the DxO workpath would be


E620 -> ORF file -> DxO -> CS3 ??

In which case what is the output from DxO (jpeg?)

Or does DxO claim to replace CS3 ??

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Old 28th January 2010
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Re: DxO Optics Pro 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by snaarman View Post
DxO users.. I admit to being intrigued by the package (even though I think I have spent enough on PP software this year having bought CS3).

Currently my workpath is

E620 -> ORF file -> Adobe DNG converter (straight conversion) -> ACR import (white balance, lens CA correction, exposure) -> CS3 + Ptlens (making the picture pretty and geometric corrections)

I regard the CS3 bit as the major creative section, so DNG and ACR are just the route into CS3.

Am I right in thinking the DxO workpath would be


E620 -> ORF file -> DxO -> CS3 ??

In which case what is the output from DxO (jpeg?)

Or does DxO claim to replace CS3 ??

Pete
Hi Pete

Your assumption is basically correct. However with Lightroom there is an option to select Dxo Optics Pro as an external editor so that it makes DxO the default program for opening Raw files so that it can apply its corrections automatically before further pp.

From a RAW file input Dxo will output JPEG, TIFF (8 or 16 bit ) or DNG or all of them.
A very comprehensive User Manual ( 61 pages ) for DxO can be downloaded in pdf from www.dxo.com/uk/photo/Support/User_Guides. Your specific queries are covered on pages 6 and 49-51 to save you reading it all

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  #18  
Old 29th January 2010
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Re: DxO Optics Pro 6

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Originally Posted by PETERBIRDER View Post
Hi Pete
However with Lightroom there is an option to select Dxo Optics Pro as an external editor so that it makes DxO the default program for opening Raw files so that it can apply its corrections automatically before further pp.

Regards
I was not aware that Lightroom could send and open a raw file to another raw editor as it is only capable of sending them as PSD's or tiffs and is another reason I prefere to use IDimager5 as I can send a raw file to any of my raw convertes including my copy of lightroom, is this just a feature DxO or are you mistaken and LR is just sending it as a tiff and not a ORF?
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Last edited by OlyPaul; 29th January 2010 at 12:12 PM.
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  #19  
Old 29th January 2010
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Re: DxO Optics Pro 6

I haven't tried it as I don't have Lightroom but it's what the DxO manual says.
Reference is in my previous post.

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  #20  
Old 29th January 2010
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Re: DxO Optics Pro 6

Here what it say Peter

"With Adobe® Photoshop Lightroom™, however, you can make use of the option to select DxO Optics Pro as an external editor: this will make DxO Optics Pro the default program for opening RAW files so that it can apply its corrections automatically."

But as you can see LR can only supply files as Tiff or PSD and not Raw to a external editor, in fact sending one to my Silkypix raw converter opens it as a tiff file and not a native ORF so I'm doubting this statement as Adobe does not usally play nice with other producers of raw converters, although it would be good if it were true.



It would be interesting to hear from Ian or someone who has both to confirm either way.
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  #21  
Old 29th January 2010
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Re: DxO Optics Pro 6

No doubt I will trip over this one tonight. I downloaded the free trial DxO this morning..

However - if you equip your CS3 for raw you do it by installing a raw processing plugin. I guess this is the same with Lightroom. So when you click on an ORF it opens (in this case) ACR which sits as a window on top of CS3, and it is ACR that opens the raw file. When you have finished ACR closes and the image is passed seamlessly to CS3.

So surely you would need a DxO "plugin" for adobe to have it work seamlessly, rather than a stand alone DxO app. Somehow I don't think this can be done.. Prove me wrong :-)

Pete

Edit.. Perhaps this is the subtle difference between an "external editor" and an "importing plugin" ??
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  #22  
Old 29th January 2010
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Re: DxO Optics Pro 6

I'm sorry, but I don't have any idea how Lightroom works as I don't have it. I use DxO in conjunction with PSE7, but I open DxO to open the files directly from the folders in which they reside. After processing in DxO they are automatically saved back as a new file (JPEG and/or TIFF) to the original folder, from which they are then automatically identified by PSE Organiser. From here, any further editing required (which isn't usually much) can be done in the PSE Editor.

I know Lightroom is much more sophisticated than PSE, but could it be used in a similar way, or does this destroy the advantages of Lightroom?
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  #23  
Old 29th January 2010
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Re: DxO Optics Pro 6

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Originally Posted by Batman View Post
I'm sorry, but I don't have any idea how Lightroom works as I don't have it. I use DxO in conjunction with PSE7, but I open DxO to open the files directly from the folders in which they reside. After processing in DxO they are automatically saved back as a new file (JPEG and/or TIFF) to the original folder, from which they are then automatically identified by PSE Organiser. From here, any further editing required (which isn't usually much) can be done in the PSE Editor.

I know Lightroom is much more sophisticated than PSE, but could it be used in a similar way, or does this destroy the advantages of Lightroom?
It does kind of destroy the advantage as LR is seen and touted as a Image managment Program (not by me) as well as a raw converter, and having to go to your OP's browser or another digital image managment program to open the raw files in a application of your choice contradicts the term to me.

Acdsee Pro 3 works on the same basis as LR2 as being a Digital image managment program as well as having a built in raw converter, but you can also send raw files from it to any program of your choosing as you can in any true DAM program.

So Adobe is saying its a image managment program (sort of) but only if you do not mind being tied into our raw converter (proberly part of Adobes worldwide domination program), its always been a bone of contention for me and always will be I'm afraid and the reason LR2 is no longer my main DAM program.
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  #24  
Old 29th January 2010
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Re: DxO Optics Pro 6

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Originally Posted by Paul_S View Post
It does kind of destroy the advantage as LR is seen and touted as a Image managment Program (not by me) as well as a raw converter, and having to go to your OP's browser or another digital image managment program to open the raw files in a application of your choice contradicts the term to me.

Acdsee Pro 3 works on the same basis as LR2 as being a Digital image managment program as well as having a built in raw converter, but you can also send raw files from it to any program of your choosing as you can in any true DAM program.

So Adobe is saying its a image managment program (sort of) but only if you do not mind being tied into our raw converter (proberly part of Adobes worldwide domination program), its always been a bone of contention for me and always will be I'm afraid and the reason LR2 is no longer my main DAM program.
I think this is a bit like splitting hairs. LR is, for many, as effective as an image management program as they need. Sure there are better DAM alternatives and the reasons have been very well explained by many, including your good self, but in the end I rate LR for the sum of the parts and it's brilliant in all the important areas. If I decided to invest in a better DAM, it would simply complicate my own workflow and there are no other DAMs that can RAW processing as fast and as effectively as LR in my opinion. Yes, there are better DAMs and there are a couple of better RAW processors, but nothing else comes close, in my opinion, for combined functionality (at least not for Windows).

Ian
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  #25  
Old 29th January 2010
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Re: DxO Optics Pro 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by PETERBIRDER View Post
A very comprehensive User Manual ( 61 pages ) for DxO can be downloaded in pdf from www.dxo.com/uk/photo/Support/User_Guides. Your specific queries are covered on pages 6 and 49-51 to save you reading it all
There is another document at the same address Working with DxO Optics Pro 6 and Adobe Lightroom 2 which may further illuminate the discussion.

Disclaimer: I have not tried it
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Re: DxO Optics Pro 6

Ian I'm not splitting hairs and there will alway be those that prefere LR as you do.Although I can think of a DAM program that with a outside raw converter works as good if not better in windows in my opinion and it is just a opinion.

But thats digressing as all this came about from the statement and the DxO manual that says you can send a ORF from LR to DxO 6 and to which I quiried and thought was not possible and was a shortcoming of LR and to which no answer as yet been forthcoming!

I apologise if my thoughts have upset you Ian and I will refrain from advocating something else over LR on this forum.
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  #27  
Old 29th January 2010
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Re: DxO Optics Pro 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adagio View Post
There is another document at the same address Working with DxO Optics Pro 6 and Adobe Lightroom 2 which may further illuminate the discussion.

Disclaimer: I have not tried it
Thanks David , thats a yes then thanks to DxO's fancy and clever programing to overcome LR's none friendly atitiude to outside raw converters, nice work by DxO in overcoming it.
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  #28  
Old 29th January 2010
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Re: DxO Optics Pro 6

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Originally Posted by Paul_S View Post
Ian I'm not splitting hairs and there will alway be those that prefere LR as you do.Although I can think of a DAM program that with a outside raw converter works as good if not better in windows in my opinion and it is just a opinion.

But thats digressing as all this came about from the statement and the DxO manual that says you can send a ORF from LR to DxO 6 and to which I quiried and thought was not possible and was a shortcoming of LR and to which no answer as yet been forthcoming!

I apologise if my thoughts have upset you Ian and I will refrain from advocating something else over LR on this forum.
No - I should apologise as my tone wasn't conveyed well! (sorry! ).

My point is simply that the vast majority of photographers will never adapt to the advanced features of the kind of DAM programs that you recommend. I'm one of them. That doesn't mean they are bad, or anything like that. But the reality is, in my humblest opinion, that LR will be more than adequate for most photographers, both as a DAM (and it's not terrible at that) and as a RAW converter. But above all, it works amazingly well within its limitations, and for most of us those limitations are hardly a problem.

I do understand your view on DAMs and that there are better RAW converters in terms of results, but LR is a remarkable overall solution that really sets usability standards.

I have tried many other solutions and LR simply works as an overall, tightly integrated solution. It's not perfect and I wish it worked differently in some ways; importing even when in develop mode, applying metadata changes outside of Library Grid mode, etc. But fundamentally, it's a revolution to my workflow and I have not in the least bit felt limited by the DAM side, and my database has 55,000 images in it.

I completely respect your choice, but I just felt moved to suggest that really advanced DAM functionality, while elegant and effective, is more of a luxury than a necessity. LR is already a challenging application to get started with and some DAMs I have come across are even harder to get one's head around!

Ian
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  #29  
Old 25th February 2010
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Re: DxO Optics Pro 6

Stimulated by this thread to look at the trial version in a bit more detail, I too am impressed by the results 'straight out of the box'. I set the output file format to DNG and am puzzled by the file sizes. The input ORFs are in the range 9.5-12 MB, the output DNGs 35-50MB. DNGs produced by LR2 seem almost rthe same size as the original RAW files. Can anyone explain?
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Old 25th February 2010
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Re: DxO Optics Pro 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adagio View Post
Stimulated by this thread to look at the trial version in a bit more detail, I too am impressed by the results 'straight out of the box'. I set the output file format to DNG and am puzzled by the file sizes. The input ORFs are in the range 9.5-12 MB, the output DNGs 35-50MB. DNGs produced by LR2 seem almost rthe same size as the original RAW files. Can anyone explain?
David
Sorry, it's another one of those " if all else fails read the manual " situations but there are 62 pages. No I haven't read it all but your question got me intrigued.
Page 51 sect 5.4 says;
" The DNG generated by DxO is a 16-bit linear DNG format. This format is only available for original images in RAW format. No quality option is offered. Linear DNG means that the three color channels have been interpolated and therefore that the file "weighs" three times more than the original RAW file. Interpolation was necessary to perform a number of optical corrections. This format offers the same level of colour and exposure control as with a RAW file generated by the camera."
Guess this means you'll only use DNG if you realy, realy want to store an image for future re-processing.

Regards
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